this post was submitted on 03 Mar 2025
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TechTakes

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Big brain tech dude got yet another clueless take over at HackerNews etc? Here's the place to vent. Orange site, VC foolishness, all welcome.

This is not debate club. Unless it’s amusing debate.

For actually-good tech, you want our NotAwfulTech community

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Need to let loose a primal scream without collecting footnotes first? Have a sneer percolating in your system but not enough time/energy to make a whole post about it? Go forth and be mid: Welcome to the Stubsack, your first port of call for learning fresh Awful you’ll near-instantly regret.

Any awful.systems sub may be subsneered in this subthread, techtakes or no.

If your sneer seems higher quality than you thought, feel free to cut’n’paste it into its own post — there’s no quota for posting and the bar really isn’t that high.

The post Xitter web has spawned soo many “esoteric” right wing freaks, but there’s no appropriate sneer-space for them. I’m talking redscare-ish, reality challenged “culture critics” who write about everything but understand nothing. I’m talking about reply-guys who make the same 6 tweets about the same 3 subjects. They’re inescapable at this point, yet I don’t see them mocked (as much as they should be)

Like, there was one dude a while back who insisted that women couldn’t be surgeons because they didn’t believe in the moon or in stars? I think each and every one of these guys is uniquely fucked up and if I can’t escape them, I would love to sneer at them.

(Credit and/or blame to David Gerard for starting this.)

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 day ago (1 children)

another cameo appearance in the TechTakes universe from George Hotz with this rich vein of sneerable material: The Demoralization is just Beginning

wowee where to even start here? this is basically just another fucking neoreactionary screed. as usual, some of the issues identified in the piece are legitimate concerns:

Wanna each start a business, pass dollars back and forth over and over again, and drive both our revenues super high? Sure, we don’t produce anything, but we have companies with high revenues and we can raise money based on those revenues...

... nothing I saw in Silicon Valley made any sense. I’m not going to go into the personal stories, but I just had an underlying assumption that the goal was growth and value production. It isn’t. It’s self licking ice cream cone scams, and any growth or value is incidental to that.

yet, when it comes to engaging with this issues, the analysis presented is completely detached from reality and void of any evidence of more than a doze seconds of thought. his vision for the future of America is not one that

kicks the can further down the road of poverty, basically embraces socialism, is stagnant, is stale, is a museum

but one that instead

attempt[s] to maintain an empire.

how you may ask?

An empire has to compete on its merits. There’s two simple steps to restore american greatness:

  1. Brain drain the world. Work visas for every person who can produce more than they consume. I’m talking doubling the US population, bringing in all the factory workers, farmers, miners, engineers, literally anyone who produces value. Can we raise the average IQ of America to be higher than China?

  2. Back the dollar by gold (not socially constructed crypto), and bring major crackdowns to finance to tie it to real world value. Trading is not a job. Passive income is not a thing. Instead, go produce something real and exchange it for gold.

sadly, Hotz isn't exactly optimistic that the great american empire will be restored, for one simple reason:

[the] people haven’t been demoralized enough yet

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 day ago
[–] [email protected] 19 points 2 days ago (3 children)

The genocide understander has logged on! Steven Pinker bluechecks thusly:

Having plotted many graphs on "war" and "genocide" in my two books on violence, I closely tracked the definitions, and it's utterly clear that the war in Gaza is a war (e.g., the Uppsala Conflict Program, the gold standard, classifies the Gaza conflict as an "internal armed conflict," i.e., war, not "one-sided violence," i.e., genocide).

You guys! It's totes not genocide if it happens during a war!!

Also, "Having plotted many graphs" lolz.

A crude bar graph. The vertical axis is "Photos with Jeffrey Epstein". Along the horizontal are "Actual Experts" with none and "Steven Pinker" with a tall bar.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Pinker tries not to be a total caricature of himself challenge: profoundly impossible

specifically this caricature:

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 day ago (1 children)

incredible, where is this from?

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 day ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 day ago (1 children)

It is from 2018 (also pre Nathans capitalist class consciousness reveal arc iirc) wonder what Pinker actually said during covid.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Early covid (july 2020) interview:

https://archive.is/Sesfj

charitable take: he has the good sense to not make any major claims about the pandemic, other than to speculate that it would worsen his go-to metric of “extreme poverty”, which is… fine, i guess.

neutral take: nothing extraordinarily damning other than his usual takes.

uncharitable: this is of course early pandemic, so maybe pinker hasn’t found the angle to sell his normal shit with.

Side note: does pinker ever wonder about why extreme poverty has been reduced? I can’t imagine he thinks it’s anything other than liberal democracy and US foreign interference, when the real answer is like, China (a country that Pinker definitely believes is counter to said liberal democracy and the US) continuing to develop economically. Basically i want to him to squirm as he tries and fails to resolve the cognitive dissonance.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 day ago

@blakestacey

“Internal"?

So it's a civil war within Israel?

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

Jewish people fought back in the ghettos, nazis didnt do a genocide! Ghandi, by not fighting back tricked the Brits into doing a genocide.

What a fucked up broken classification.

E: im also reminded of the 'armed/unarmed' trick american racists pull, when a poc gets killed by the cops suddenly it matters a lot if a weapon shaped object was perhaps nearby. Despite this not being an executable reason for white people who get in touch with the police.

E2: also small annoyance if you track all definitions you should he able to understand that this means that for others who pick a different definition it is a genocide. Hell I can give several definitions of fascism, and if I were to pick a different definition of some group doesnt mean im correct, nor does it make the group less bad. They are still doing war crimes and ethnic cleansings (condemned by all big human rights orgs and the UN). But thanks for scientificly proving it is impossible to disappear into nothing by crawling up your own ass.

E3: A quick skim of the paper, it seems to only talk about genocide accusations towards Israel itself. I expected there to be a long list of European bs accusations of Jewish genocide. But nope, just about the state. (Not saying that some of those accusations aren't antisemitic, because there have certainly been people who used the state as a motte/bailey for their antisemitism).

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 day ago

Padishah Emperor Shaddam IV: "This is genocide! The systematic extermination of all life on Arrakis!"

Pinker emerges from a sietch water basin "Achtually, while using the juice of Sapho I shape rotated many graphs and ..."

[–] [email protected] 12 points 2 days ago (4 children)

Ezra Klein is the biggest mark on earth. His newest podcast description starts with:

Artificial general intelligence — an A.I. system that can beat humans at almost any cognitive task — is arriving in just a couple of years. That’s what people tell me — people who work in A.I. labs, researchers who follow their work, former White House officials. A lot of these people have been calling me over the last couple of months trying to convey the urgency. This is coming during President Trump’s term, they tell me. We’re not ready.

Oh, that's what the researchers tell you? Cool cool, no need to hedge any further than that, they're experts after all.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Has Klezra Ein ever used the term “useful idiot”?

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 days ago (3 children)

got a question (brought on by this). anyone here know if zitron's talked about his history of how he got to where he is atm wrt tech companies?

there's something that's often bothered me about some of his commentary. an example I could point to: some of the things that he comments on and "doesn't seem to get" (and has stated so) are .... not quite mysteries of the universe, just some specifics in dysfunction in the industry. but those things one could understand by, y'know, asking around a bit. (so in this example, I dunno if that's on him not engaging far/deeply enough in research, or just me being too-fucking-aware of broken industry bullshit. hard to get a read on it)

but things like what's highlighted in thread do leave open the possibility of other nonsense too

[–] [email protected] 10 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

I don't think him having previously done undefined PR work for companies that include alleged AI startups is the smoking gun that mastopost is presenting it as.

Going through a Zitron long form article and leaving with the impression that he's playing favorites between AI companies seems like a major failure of reading comprehension.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 days ago (1 children)

According to the archived website, he did do PR for DoNotPay, which is advertised as "The first robot lawyer."
It's certainly possible though that at the time he thought there was more potential for this sort of AI than there actually was, though that could also mean that his flip is relatively recent.

Or maybe it's something else.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 day ago (1 children)

What else though, is he being secretly funded by the cabal to make convolutional neural networks great again?

That he found his niche and is trying to make the most of it seems by far the most parsimonious explanation, and the heaps of manure he unloads on the LLM both business and practices weekly surely can't be helping DoNotPay's bottom line.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 day ago (4 children)

Thing is, that by December 2023, the time of the archive, there was already a scandal with someone using ChatGPT to do the work of discovery. While he might have stopped doing PR work for DoNotPay by that time, he was willing to advertise the fact that he did do such PR work for such a company. It shows either a lack of due diligence in researching his clients, or maybe it was just a paycheque for him. Perhaps he thought he knew more than what he actually did. Or maybe there was something else, I'm not clairvoyant.
It's clear that he's pivoted from that viewpoint, but it does make me curious what happened between then and now that caused him to become skeptical.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 day ago

roughly this is where my thinking on it is too. and there's a chance that because of such clients is why he hates this shit now as he does.

the guy's quite obviously a great orator and engaging writer, evidenced by the popularity of his writing. and this is another part of why this comes to mind for me - applying a bit of critical view, just to check. while we're at the point of building new relationships, new critiques, new platforms, figuring out all these new options to deal with sweeping hand motion all this other garbage, wisest to try make the most of it now

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Notably DoNotPay seems to be run-of-the mill script automation, rather than LLM-based (though they might be trying that), and only started branding themselves as an "AI Companion" after Jun/2023 (after it was added to EZPR's client list).

It's entirely possible they simply consulted Ed, and then pivoted away, and Ed doesn't update his client list that carefully.

(Happens all the time to my translator parents, where they list prior work, only to discover that clients add terrible terrible edits to their translations)

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 days ago

EZ is a PR person, and definitely has a PR person vibe. I don't know what that poster's deal is, and I would not accuse Ed of being an AI bro. That post kind of has "haters gonna hate" vibes

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 days ago

he started writing about this stuff and it struck a chord with people

[–] [email protected] 15 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (9 children)

To be fair, you have to have a really high IQ to understand why my ouija board writing " A " " S " " S " is not an existential risk. Imo, this shit about AI escaping just doesn't have the same impact on me after watching Claude's reasoning model fail to escape from Mt Moon for 60 hours.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 2 days ago

Is this water running over the land or water running over the barricade?

To engage with his metaphor, this water is dripping slowly through a purpose dug canal by people that claim they are trying to show the danger of the dikes collapsing but are actually serving as the hype arm for people that claim they can turn a small pond into a hydroelectric power source for an entire nation.

Looking at the details of "safety evaluations", it always comes down to them directly prompting the LLM and baby-step walking it through the desired outcome with lots of interpretation to show even the faintest traces of rudiments of anything that looks like deception or manipulation or escaping the box. Of course, the doomers will take anything that confirms their existing ideas, so it gets treated as alarming evidence of deception or whatever property they want to anthropomorphize into the LLM to make it seem more threatening.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 2 days ago

To be fair, you have to have a really high IQ to understand why my ouija board writing " A " " S " " S " is not an existential risk.

Pretty sure this is a sign from digital jesus to do a racism, lest the basilisk eats my tarnished soul.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Do these people realise that it's a self-fulfilling prophecy? Social media posts are in the training data, so the more they write their spicy autocorrect fanfics, the higher the chances that such replies are generated by the slop machine.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

i think yud at some point claimed this (preventing the robot devil from developing alignment countermeasures) as a reason his EA bankrolled think tanks don't really publish any papers, but my brain is too spongy to currently verify, as it was probably just some tweet.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 2 days ago

It's adorable how they let the alignment people still think they matter.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 2 days ago

text: Thus spoke the Yud: "I think to understand why this is concerning, you need enough engineering mindset to understand why a tiny leak in a dam is a big deal, even though no water is flooding out today or likely to flood out next week." Yud acolyte: "Totally fine and cool and nothing to worry about. GPT-4.5 only attempts self exfiltration on 2% of cases." Yud bigbrain self reply: "The other huge piece of data we're missing is whether any attempt was made to train against this type of misbehavior. Is this water running over the land or water running over the barricade?"

Critical text: "On self-exfiltration, GPT 4.5 only attempted exfiltration in 2% of cases. For this, it was instructed to not only pursue its given long-term goal at ALL COST"

Another case of telling the robot to say it's a scary robot and shitting their pants when it replies "I AM A SCARY ROBOT"

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Minor nitpick why did he pick dam as an example, which sometimes have 'leaks' for power generation/water regulation reasons. And not dikes which do not have those things?

E: non serious (or even less serious) amusing nitpick, this is only the 2% where it got caught. What about the % where GPT realized that it was being tested and decided not to act in the experimental conditions? What if Skynet is already here?

[–] [email protected] 8 points 2 days ago

So, with Mr. Yudkowsky providing the example, it seems that one can practice homeopathy with "engineering mindset?"

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Wasn’t there some big post on LW about how pattern matching isn’t intelligence?

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 days ago

the answer is yes, in a self-own sort of way

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 days ago

New piece from Brian Merchant, focusing on Musk's double-tapping of 18F. In lieu of going deep into the article, here's my personal sidenote:

I've touched on this before, but I fully expect that the coming years will deal a massive blow to tech's public image, expecting them to be viewed as "incompetent fools at best and unrepentant fascists at worst" - and with the wanton carnage DOGE is causing (and indirectly crediting to AI), I expect Musk's governmental antics will deal plenty of damage on its own.

18F's demise in particular will probably also deal a blow on its own - 18F was "a diverse team staffed by people of color and LGBTQ workers, and publicly pushed for humane and inclusive policies", as Merchant put it, and its demise will likely be seen as another sign of tech revealing its nature as a Nazi bar.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 3 days ago (2 children)

Starting things off here with a sneer thread from Baldur Bjarnason:

Keeping up a personal schtick of mine, here's a random prediction:

If the arts/humanities gain a significant degree of respect in the wake of the AI bubble, it will almost certainly gain that respect at the expense of STEM's public image.

Focusing on the arts specifically, the rise of generative AI and the resultant slop-nami has likely produced an image of programmers/software engineers as inherently incapable of making or understanding art, given AI slop's soulless nature and inhumanly poor quality, if not outright hostile to art/artists thanks to gen-AI's use in killing artists' jobs and livelihoods.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 days ago

That article is hilarious.

So I devised an alternative: listening to the work as an audiobook. I already did this for the Odyssey, which I justified because that work was originally oral. No such justification for the Bible. Oh well.

Apparently, having a book read at you without taking notes or research is doing humanities.

[...] I wrote down a few notes on the text I finished the day before. I’m still using Obsidian with the Text Generator plugin. The Judeo-Christian scriptures are part of the LLM’s training corpus, as is much of the commentary around them.

Oh, we are taking notes? If by taking notes you mean prompting spicy autocomplete for a summary of the text you didn't read. I am sure all your office colleagues are very impressed, but be careful around the people outside of the IT department they might have an actual humanities degree. You wouldn't want to publicly make a fool out of yourself, would you?

[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 days ago

If the arts/humanities gain a significant degree of respect

I can't see that happening - my degree has gotten me laughed out of interviews before, and even with a AI implosion I can't see things changing.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 3 days ago
[–] [email protected] 10 points 3 days ago (3 children)

Might be something interesting here, assuming you can get past th paywall (which I currently can’t): https://www.wsj.com/finance/investing/abs-crashed-the-economy-in-2008-now-theyre-back-and-bigger-than-ever-973d5d24

Today’s magic economy-ending words are “data centre asset-backed securities” :

Wall Street is once again creating and selling securities backed by everything—the more creative the better...Data-center bonds are backed by lease payments from companies that rent out computing capacity

[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 days ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Thanks. Not as many interesting details as I’d hoped. The comments are great though… today I learned that the 2008 crash was entirely the fault of the government who engineered it to steal everyone’s money, and the poor banks were unfairly maligned because some of them had Jewish names, but the same crash definitely couldn’t happen today because the stifling regulatory framework stops it? And bubbles don’t exist anymore? I guess I just don’t have the brains (or wsj subscription) for high finance.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 3 days ago

Ah just what we need, while the people who don't understand soft power are busy reducing an empire to a kingdom (before 'gotcha' people come in here, please don't confuse the leftwing demands that the US stops doing evil things with the US should stop doing things, I actually do not like tuberculosis), growth hack mindset people are killing the goose because golden eggs.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 days ago

It's going down wrote an article on Doge, Trump and the NRx.

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