Double the fine for 'self-driving' traffic violations and bill the manufacturer for half.
this post was submitted on 27 Jul 2023
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Bill the manufacturer 100%, IMO. Thats why I think self driving cars beg an unanswerable legal question, as when the car drives for you, why would you be at fault? How will businesses survive if they have to take full accountability for accidents caused by self-driving cars?
I think its almost always pointless to hold back innovation, but in this case I think a full ban on self driving cars would be a great move.
The most basic driving like long stretches of highway shouldn't be banned from using AI/automated driving. The fast paced inner city driving should be augmented but not fully automatic. Same goes for driving in inclement weather: augmented with hard limits on speed and automated braking for anything that could result in a crash
Edit: I meant this statement as referring to the technology in it's current consumer form (what is available to the public right at this moment). I fully expect that as the technology matures so will the percentage of incidents decline. We are likely to attain a largely driverless society one day in my lifetime
"Self driving with driver assist" or whatever they call it when it isn't 100% automated is basically super fancy cruise control and should be treated as such. The main problem with the term autopilot is that for airplanes it means 100% control and very misleading when used for fancy cruise control in cars.
I agree that it should be limited in use to highways and other open roads, like when cruise control should be used. People using cruise control in the city without being in control to brake is the same basic issue.
Not 100% fully automated with no expectation of driver involvement should be allowed when it has surpassed regular drivers. To be honest, we might even be there with how terrible human drivers are...
Autopilot systems on airplanes make fewer claims about autonomous operation than Tesla. No pilot relies completely on autopilot functionality.
Autopilot in aircraft is actually kinda comparable, it still needs a skilled human operator to set it up and monitor it (and other flight controls) all of the time. And in most modes it's not even really all that autonomous - at most it follows a pre-programmed route.
Can’t the newer ones take off and land as well?
They can, but the setup is still non-trivial and full auto landing capability isn't used all that much even if technically available. It also isn't just the capability of the aircraft, it requires a shitton of supporting infrastructure on the ground (airport) and many airports don't support this.
That would be equivalent to installing new intersections where you'd also have a broadcast of what the current signals are for each lane, which would help self-driving cars immensely (and regular cars eventually too, with assistive technologies to help drivers drive more safe), but that's simply not a thing yet.
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I disagree, I feel no matter how good the technology becomes, the odd one-in-a-million glitch that kills someone is not preferable to me over the accidents caused by humans. (Even if we assume the self driving cars crash at a lesser rate than human drivers).
The less augmentation past lane assist and automated braking the better IMO. I definitely disagree with a capped speed limit built into the vehicle, that should never be limited less than what could melt engine components or something (and even that would be take time to turn on). The detriments that system would cause when it malfunctions far outweigh the benefits it would bring to safety.
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I think its almost always pointless to hold back innovation, but in this case I think a full ban on self driving cars would be a great move.
I agree on both points. Also I think it's important to characterize the 'innovation' of self driving as more social-economic than technological.
The component systems- sensing, processing, communications, power, etc- have a wide range of engineering applications and research and development will inevitably continue no matter the future of self-driving. Self driving only solves a very particular social-economic-technological issue that only exists because of how humans historically chose to address the same issue with older technology. Self driving is more of a product than a 'technology' in my book.
So my point there is that I don't think a ban on full self driving really qualifies as 'holding back innovation' at all. It's just telling companies not to develop a specific product. Hyperbolic example but nobody would say banning companies from creating a nuclear powered oven was 'holding back innovation'. If anything forcing us to re-envision human transportation without integrating into legacy requirements advances innovation more than just trying to use AI to solve the problems created by using humans to solve the original problem of how to move humans around in cars.
I see it the same way, but an incredible amount of people I've discussed this with say that its stupid to hold back technological innovation "like self-driving cars". Its an unnecessary piece of technology.
I also just think the whole ethical complication is fucked. The way we have it now, every driver is responsible for their actions and no driver ever glitches out on the freeway (and if they do, they bear the consequences). Imagine a man's wife and kids getting killed by a drunk driver vs a self-driving car. In one scenario you can clearly place blame, and take action in a much more meaningful way than just suing a car manufacturer.
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Nah. Give tesla the same number of points everyone else gets on their license. If the company runs out, no more cars controlled by tesla on the roads..
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We need to build special roads so self driving cars can navigate properly.
You could even connect self driving cars together, by letting the front car pull them the others could save their batteries.
And with these "trains" of self driving cars pulling each other, you wouldn't have to build the self driving car roads very wide, they could just run on narrow "tracks" for the wheels.
Then we'd have more space for human stuff instead of car stuff like roads and parking lots everywhere.
He's done it again. Elon Musk is a god damn genius.
Would you consider to also make an underground version?
I'd like an elevated one.
Can we also put it on one rail instead of two?
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This reminded me so much of this !
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Trains!
JFC that's frightening. It blew that red at about 30mph, didn't even really slow down except for the curve.
Because the car didn't recognize it as a red light, probably due to all the green lights that were facing a similar direction.
The issue is not the speed at which it took the turn, but that it cannot distinguish which traffic lights are for the lane the car is in.
If you've watched any of their recent AI talks, they talk a lot about these unusual and complex intersections. Lane mappings in complexe intersections being one of the hardest problems. Currently they're taking data from numerous cars to reconstruct intersections like this to then turn into a simulation and train it so it learns more and more complex things.
There really are only 2 options.
Solve this with vision and AI, or solve this with HD maps.
But it has to be solved.
If it sees red and green, it should take the safe option and stop until it is sure or the driver takes over.
If it's unsure, but for whatever reason this failed, it seemed sure.
I've had the car slow in unsure situations before so it can and does.
It just got this one very wrong for some reason
Then why have I been forced to do all those ReCaptchas?
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Is is a common thing on Fsd beta - gets posted all the time to https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/forums/ai-autopilot-autonomous-fsd.249/
The overall trend on the forums is that latest versions are getting worse.
It blows my mind they decided not to use LIDAR anymore. Of course it's getting worse.
Man hackernews is full of people criticizing the poster saying that he should have disengaged the system so it learns completely missing the point that FSD should not be considered safe.
Eech. The comments under the original tweet are rancid. Twitter is really Musk town now.
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