Crime and Punishment : housing_bubble

[–] WoodScientist 12 points 2 months ago (3 children)

Ok here's what we do. We build a social housing, but we officially call it a "prison." People who are picked up for homelessness-related 'crimes' like public camping can be "sentenced" to this 'prison.' It will officially be a prison, but it will be unique in that every prisoner will qualify for daytime release. It will also be so low-security that there won't be any guards. Still, officially, legally, it will be a prison.

That way the homeless-haters can still masturbate to their hate-porn, but the rest of us can actually get around to solving the problem.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago

There will still be some guards, ask anyone with experience with homeless shelters about theft.

I've long said that we can divert basically everything from the prison industrial complex to homeless shelters. The contractors still make the same money, we just replace the bars with doors and give the residents the key. Just shift most of the security budget to social services.

They have all the infrastructure right there. Clothes, food, housing, security, medical attention. I even think the work for pennies is okay until they clean up enough for a real job, which they can get because they're free to go whenever. Especially if it includes training.

[–] Jarix 1 points 2 months ago

Give me a billion dollars lemmy, and ill work on this project(i dont think i would need that much but maybe we can do it multiple times and it be awesome)

[–] Lost_My_Mind -4 points 2 months ago (3 children)

My biggest problem with this, is that as it stands right now, the majority of the homeless have mental health issues where they don't understand what's going on 99% of the time. Your plan offers nothing in the way of addressing their issues.

My second problem is, if these people are jobless and homeless, but they still get all their basic needs met.......what's to stop me, someone who's living outside of my means but still not making much money at all from just quitting my job and having free rent and all day free rather than 99% of my day spoken for and still losing money?

[–] LePoisson 10 points 2 months ago (1 children)

the majority of the homeless have mental health issues where they don't understand what's going on 99% of the time.

Just ... No. Obviously fake and pulled straight out your ass.

what's to stop me, someone who's living outside of my means but still not making much money at all from just quitting my job and having free rent and all day free rather than 99% of my day spoken for and still losing money?

Well, presumably, the fact that you'd like to have money to do other stuff? Or to have a nicer place to live? Maybe you want to drive a nice car? Honestly the lifestyle you can sustain on government assistance is not going to be fancy.

[–] Lost_My_Mind -1 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Just … No. Obviously fake and pulled straight out your ass.

I'm going to type out a literal word for word exchange I had with one of them on the rapid last night.

"Did the Indians win last night?"

"They didn't play. They've been eliminated from the playoffs a few days ago."

"But did the Indians win?"

"No. They're eliminated."

"But did they win last night???"

"NO! THERE WAS NO GAME, BECAUSE THEY WERE ELIMINATED."

"BITCH I AIN'T ASK ALL THAT! DID THEY WIIIIN????"

"HOW CAN THEY WIN IF THEY DON'T PLAY???"

"So they beat the red necks?"

At this point I'm not even sure what he's implying or asking. The 4 teams in the ALCS and NLCS were the Guardians, the Yankees, the Mets, and the Dodgers. No clue who the "Rednecks" are in that scenario.

You tell me this guy has ANY clue what's going on around him.

Well, presumably, the fact that you’d like to have money to do other stuff? Or to have a nicer place to live? Maybe you want to drive a nice car?

Right now I'm making $12 an hour, which is the most I've ever made in my life. I'm 41, never even attempted to get a drivers liscense, and I live in a 1 bedroom apartment thats about as cheap as you can get in this city, and it STILL costs $850. So that $12 an hour is making me negative money. My fridge is empty. It's BEEN empty. And even though I only work 7 hours, with work travel, it's 13 hours of my day. So I don't even have time to get a 2nd job.

So tell me again how THIS is going to be worse conditions than getting free housing without worrying about rent?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

I think they were mostly pushing back on "most homeless" being that way.

Most homeless you don't see on the street. They're living in their car, or couch surfing, or otherwise without a proper home but still working and struggling. These people just need a bit of a break to get back on their feet. All the successful pilot projects I've seen target these people and give them a bit of a boost, and since they're just down on their luck and trying, that boost is all they need.

The ones you're describing are the entrenched homeless: those who have additional problems, like drug addiction, antisocial behaviors, and severe mental health problems. They live on the streets and in shelters. These are the small minority of homeless, but the ones that everyone pictures when they think of homeless people because they are the visible ones.

All that said, your situation sounds miserable! I sincerely hope that you're able to make a change and break through. You might not have the energy, but you must qualify for some sort of assistance whether that be aid in getting a better job or help paying your bills or other help, and if your fridge is empty hopefully your city has a food bank (the ones in my area will even deliver a care package if picking it up is a burden).

[–] LePoisson 2 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Ok your sample size of one person confused about the baseball schedule isn't exactly saying they have no idea what is going on. Nevermind how absurd it is to extrapolate that to 99% of homeless folks.

Also, yeah it sounds like you're exactly the person I think we should hand assistance to, have a free apartment for a year while you figure shit out. Or hell, forever, you'll just spend your extra money in the local economy anyways so it'll be good.

You want to get different place, need more money, I'm just saying that as a fact not like saying it's easy. It's damn hard out there.

It's crazy to me it takes you 3 hours to commute one way though and you do that daily. I mean, idk your situation but I feel like there must be something closer that pays the same or better. That's just an insane amount of time to spend just getting to work, you're saying you literally only spend about 10% more time working than you do travelling to the job.

Anyways, yeah you're just convincing me that our minimum wage should be increased. Also, if you're single and making $12 an hour in the USA - you're probably really close to or even at qualifying for food assistance. Don't be afraid to get help, you're worth it.

[–] rockSlayer 6 points 2 months ago

Check your class bias, literally none of that is true to the point of being immovable barriers. https://www.usich.gov/guidance-reports-data/data-trends

[–] WoodScientist 4 points 2 months ago

My biggest problem with this, is that as it stands right now, the majority of the homeless have mental health issues where they don’t understand what’s going on 99% of the time. Your plan offers nothing in the way of addressing their issues.

This is your personal bias and is not reflected in the literature. The truth is that housing first, simply giving people housing, is the proven most effective way to help homeless people, even those with serious drug and mental health issues! It turns out that living on the street makes it damned near impossible to make any improvements in your drug addiction or mental healthcare struggles.

Also, often people confuse cause and effect. Imagine you yourself had to sleep on the sidewalk every night. Imagine you got stuck there, repeatedly tried to pull yourself out, but couldn't. People aren't just born homeless. They become homeless when the market cost of housing exceeds the market value of their labor. That's literally all that is required. Tens of millions of working poor exist on the verge of homelessness. And if you lose your job, become homeless, and get another job, you're just right back in that state of precarity. It's very easy for people to just become stuck in homelessness.

So again, imagine you were in such a situation. How many times being thrown out on thrown out on the street, putting yourself back together, getting another job, losing it, and being thrown back on the street, are you going to go through before you say..."fuck it, I'm just going to get high all day!" It's no coincidence that the drugs homeless people abuse the most are those that allow them to escape their present reality. They're taking drugs that numb the pain, not drugs that bring hyperawareness. Cheap opioids numb both physical and emotional pain. Most of the time, people aren't homeless because they do drugs, they do drugs because they are homeless. Do not confuse cause and effect.

My second problem is, if these people are jobless and homeless, but they still get all their basic needs met…what’s to stop me, someone who’s living outside of my means but still not making much money at all from just quitting my job and having free rent and all day free rather than 99% of my day spoken for and still losing money?

That's why you provide basic housing as a social right. I think anyone who needs it should be able to be housed in a setting that is roughly equivalent in quality to a basic college dorm. You get a space to sleep, store a few things, access to communal bathing and cooking facilities, etc. If you're single, you live with a roommate.

Why would you bother working instead of living like that? Do YOU want to live the dorm life your entire life? Do YOU want to have that little space and privacy your whole life? If you don't want to live that way forever, then don't judge your fellow man so harshly and think they are less than you. If you don't want to live like that, most others likely don't want to either.

That is the core idea. You provide basic housing, just basic shelter that provides the minimum facilities for someone to be clean, safe, and have a modicum of self-worth. You provide enough to keep people safe and secure, but not so much that people actually want to stay there indefinitely.

Sure, if you're an ascetic-monk type that has renounced all worldly goods and wants to literally spend your whole life in prayer or meditation, maybe you would be content living that lifestyle forever. But so few people actually want to live that way, that we need not concern ourselves with it.

[–] Zorque 11 points 2 months ago

Yes, but if you put them in prison you can make them work for slave wages (like literal slave wages, not hyperbolic slave wages) so you can make a huge profit from their labor.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 months ago

as a punishment we should put them in tiny cardboard or oncrete boxes in a sea of boxes that are a two hour's drive away from their workplace and they also won't get any ammenities. then we make them pay it off over 60 years living paycheck to paycheck doing the most miserable and soulless jobs we can find.

bwahahaha wouldn't that be evil!

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

You can't intimidate people into accepting poverty wages without threatening them with homelessness. In this way capitalists are incentiviesd to make homelessness as miserable and difficult to leave as possible.

[–] doingthestuff -1 points 2 months ago

Giving them actual houses would be idiocy, they would be destroyed. Many have been put in dive hotels but it's been tapering off, the funding dried up. Personally I'd say build managed campgrounds with nice community restrooms and shower houses. Have a small paid staff to maintain the showers and restrooms and enforce basic codes - no building structures, no excessive junk or trash etc. It would provide basic shelter opportunity without costing crazy amounts. A lot of working people can't afford apartments now, let's fix that before we throw more money towards people who can't or won't work. Hell, I know people who choose to live in campgrounds full-time as their preference.

Housing Bubble 2: Return of the Ugly