this post was submitted on 20 Jul 2023
23 points (84.8% liked)

Linux

47994 readers
1059 users here now

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).

Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word "Linux" in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.

Rules

Related Communities

Community icon by Alpár-Etele Méder, licensed under CC BY 3.0

founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
23
Fedora or Pop!_OS? (lemmy.blahaj.zone)
submitted 1 year ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
40 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

I use a Windows and Arch dualboot, but I’m looking to escape Microsoft. I’ve heard good things about both Fedora and Pop!_OS. I’m your average Arch user; I play video games and code. Are Windows VMs suitable for games like Call of Duty on such distros ?

top 40 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Have you considered Mint? I tried PopOS but found the support wasn't great. Mint is also based on Ubuntu but adds extra functionality and skips some of the dumb stuff Canonical is pushing (i.e. snaps for everything).

As far as games: VM's are not really a good bet unless maybe you've got multiple video chips and are willing to invest time in getting GPU passthrough working (and then you really haven't escaped Microsoft so why not just dual-boot).

I've found that games on Linux (particularly Steam games) with Proton are pretty damn good and only getting better over time. Valve has put a lot of work into that with the Steam Deck (which also runs on Linux) and the non-valve versions also sometimes cover stuff that can't (like certain copy protections).

Your can see the rating for games on Linux with Proton here

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Just reaffirming that my experience getting Activision/Blizzard stuff working on Linux has been mixed. I played older games that weren't that GPU demanding, Hearthstone & Starcraft II, but the launcher would break pretty much every other update.

Mint is a great & everything works pretty much out of the box.

My understanding is that Fedora works pretty well for people gaming, GloriousEggroll, the guy that puts out the GE proton patches, contributes to Fedora, I think. Though you might want to check out NobaraLinux it is based on Feodra, but ships with additional goodies for gamers: Nvidia driver support, kernel patches, Discord, etc. https://nobaraproject.org/

Anything that you launch through Steam should also work, irrespective of your OS.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

My understanding is Nobara is made by GloriousEggroll, which is why it's so good for gaming. It worked really well for me except for the fact that some games didn't like the hybrid Nvidia graphics on my laptop. I ended up swapping to Pop because of that, and everything works like a charm. I'd rather be on Nobara tho. I really don't like Pop's desktop environment.

[–] c0mbatbag3l 2 points 1 year ago

I have an older gaming laptop with integrated graphics and a 1050 GPU, haven't had any issues.

I love Nobara, it just worked right from the jump. Website has the hash right on the page, .iso already set to go, just create a bootable, plug it in and install.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You can probably install a different desktop environment for pop, usually it's just a command and then there's a menu in the corner of your login page where you can change the desktop environment.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yeah, I know it's possible, but I'm not a linux expert and I'd rather leave well enough alone. It works and it's not Windows and that's good enough for me!

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Of course, whatever works best for you. I guess when you get annoyed enough just know switching desktops not as complicated as it might initially seem lol.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

Thanks, I'll definitely keep that in mind! :)

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

Glorious Eggroll I'm pretty sure actually works for Red Hat.

[–] p5f20w18k 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You can do VM’s with a single gpu these days, no need for 2

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You can, but can you do accelerated graphics within the VM environment?

My last foray into this with KVM/Qemu (the system native to Linux) was that accelerated graphics virtualization was still pretty twitchy, requiring various protocols which were still a bit immature (libvf, looking glass) or only available on a subset of hardware (vGPU,SR-IOV)

The docs on single GPU passthrough indicate one must detach from the host and assign to the guest (and rely on SSH or remote-screen apps etc to control the host).

PCI passthrough is the best option I've heard but basically involved the Linux host using the lower-powered GPU (possibly an integrated graphics chip) and then the guest given passthrough access to the gaming card.

If you've got good documentation on how to do this less painfully, I'd love to give it another shot. I'm pretty happy with the Proton performance on most stuff but there's definitely a few games that I'd love to move to a virtual system if it performs well

[–] p5f20w18k 1 points 1 year ago

Using KVM, you can use do full GPU pass through to any OS from your host without a need for a second GPU (including integrated graphics).

Works with AMD and nvidia cards, I’ve even done this with a macOS VM.

Here’s a guide that’s the easiest I’ve found to follow. It includes some automated scripts.

https://github.com/BigAnteater/KVM-GPU-Passthrough - this guide is for Arch Linux, but the scripts and configs should work the same on any OS, you’ll just need to make sure the correct packages are installed.

Like you mentioned, there are some hardware requirements to do this, but most modern hardware supports it. Also, if you are running the VM then using SSH to control your host is probably your only option, but shutting down your VM should take you back to your display manager so there’s no rebooting.

I used this set up to play warzone for a while, performance was just as good as windows on bare metal.

Some notes from my experience:

  1. if you upgrade your host’s kernel, then reboot before trying to start your VM.

2 There are 2 scripts that will be built for you, vfio-startup and vfio-teardown. They will unload and reload kernel modules as needed so you’ll want to check if they are needed. My nvidia drivers are built into the kernel, so I couldn’t unload them, which stalled the VM startup.

  1. It might take some trial and error, if your VM doesn’t start after you attach the GPU then check the logs under /var/log/libvirt (or wherever your libvirt logs to)
[–] woelkchen 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I’m looking to escape Microsoft ... Windows VM ... Call of Duty

You're not escaping Microsoft when putting Microsoft Windows in a VM and you're not escaping Microsoft either when playing a game series that will be owned by Microsoft within the next few months.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

Fair enough lol

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

If you don't mind the Red Hat shit, Fedora.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

Fedora

FEDORA

GREAT FEDORA

Glorious EGG ROLL

[–] jennraeross 7 points 1 year ago

To second what others have said: VM's aren't suitable for gaming regrettably.

PopOS is a rather reliable distro, and I personally have loved the window tiling features they added, but it should be noted that they only have LTS from a year ago at the moment. I think that's just while they work on their new desktop environment, but the older packages might be a tad bit of a transition coming from Arch.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago

Why leave arch? Its an incredibly good distro (I did leave it for gentoo but I regret it)

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago

Some game anti-cheat can detect VMs and will still block you. Dual booting is the highest compatibility path if that's what you value the most. Your choice of distro here doesn't matter too much, if you do go the VM route.

As far as distro choice for day to day needs, I'm a big fan of NixOS. Setup your whole system with a config file, track it with a VCS and you have an extremely consistent and flexible OS that let's you build nearly any environment you want without messing with the rest of your system.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Why not stay with Arch? Fedora has an uncertain Future due to RedHat. Anything else is probably fine, but it depends on what you want to achieve.

Regarding VM gaming it is working fine for the most part, but there are a few anti cheat engines which block VMs so your milage will vary (Escape from Tarkov, Rainbow Six Siege and I think Valorant don't work, most other games do last time I checked). Keep in mind you need a mainboard which plays nice with IOMMU, a CPU with enough cores and you probably want two graphics cards. One dedicated for passthrough. If you don't have a purpose built computer for this your results might not be great.

Playing Windows games in a Windows VM is not escaping Microsoft though, but others already said that.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

I concure, i had pop os with virtual machines for windows via kvm/qemu. Total noob but i got it to work somehow. Anyway several games i couldnt play due to anti cheat, i had destiny 2 on my steam account that i cant play do to this problem as i risk my account being banned just for having linux. Eventually after some tinkering i broke my pop os(wanted to use lightdm and lighter desktop enviornment to save ram/cpu).

Only use windows vm for non linux friendly titles i have already paid for. Everything else will be via linux vm for gaming. Since vm is my goto i like keeping my host computer minimum. Also i prefer hdmi audio for my vms as my switch box has an toslink(fiber optic) audio out. Keeps the audio part super easy to add using astros or equivilant gear that have optical support.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

I have a Pop_OS! and enabled Wayland just for fun on AMD gpu and everything works as expected.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

Why not stay on arch? I doubt the experience with VMS will differ between distros, just try it out. And as others have mentioned if your concern is anti cheat than vms might not work since some anti cheats can detect them. If it is not anti cheat than any distro will do, since pretty much anything not anti cheat is playable through proton these days. Another thing to consider is your GPU, keep in mind that if you want to use it for gaming in a VM you need to make a passthrough and you won't be able to use it for your Linux desktop (I think at least, there might be a way to unload the GPU at runtime, but it's probably complicated)

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

I actually have Fedora installed on my desktop, and Pop_OS installed on my laptop! I've always been a big fan of the RedHat way of doing things (Yum / DNF & RPMs, the fs organization, etc), but I've gotta say, I really prefer the Pop!_OS user experience when I'm in the GUI.

As others have said, it probably doesn't matter which one you use if your primary purpose is gaming. They'll both run Steam's proton engine just fine. If you're looking for COD, specifically, you're likely going to run into some issues; ProtonDB says that support for those games is not perfect. But a lot of games will work just as well on linux as they do on Windows with it.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I have used many Linux distros, Old-school RedHat (floppy days) Debian, Ubuntu, Fedora, Mint, etc. I used to like messing around with the kernel and configs, etc. Now I just want something that works so that I can get to work. I installed Pop_OS on an old Microsoft Surface about 3 weeks ago and I have been very impressed. It was simple to install, has a pleasing interface design, and no bloat software. I'm going to keep using it for my desktop and highly recommend it.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Same here. Used to run Arch and got really into tinkering with the kernel and wm configs. I'm also incredibly lazy and I just want things to work. I switched to pop_os and haven't really looked back (well...sort of... there's a voice in the back of my head screaming at me to switch to Endeavour, but I've been ignoring it for now)

[–] warmaster 3 points 1 year ago

I've tried every major distro and settled on Arch to receive the latest updates as soon as they exist. Its been pretty solid. But if I had to choose another distro I would choose Fedora, BUT... Red Hat has been a complete asshole, and I'm not supporting their shit.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

Sorry VMs won't work in your situation. Check out Lutris for your games.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

I've been running Pop since 2018 (I think?) and have had few issues. It currently pinned to the LTS of Ubuntu while they focus on their home grown Cosmic DE. They still update Kernel/Mesa versions though. Having never really "distro hopped" I put Fedora on a couple of machines when upgrading a couple months ago. I 90% can't tell the difference. The new Gnome stuff is nice, and Wayland by default is nice. I'd say it's hard to go wrong with either. Though Arch is more of an "enthusiast" Linux in my mind. Like something you'd have strong opinions about. Any particular reason to move away from it?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

Pop!_OS because of recent Red Hat controversie

[–] dawwwsh 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I've been happily running Fedora Workstation for about 2 years on several devices and desktop environments. Up until the RedHat controversy, I would recommend Fedora. But you should probably try Pop!_OS first. It seems to be easier to use and Ubuntu compatible.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

I recently moved from win 10 to Pop os for work related stuff, also I have arch on another ,,free time pc,, and Mint on my old home server-ish pc.

Pop is pretty good, all necessary stuff is preinstalled, I like how it works out of the box. Games run smoothly, not as smooth as on win but I can give up 5 fps for not being MS(lave)

Mint has more preinstalled packages, feels more bulky but runs ,,smoother,, on old laptop. Also the ui is more like windows

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

I would say pop due to fedora getting caught up in the all drama surrounding red har right now

[–] danielfgom -2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

PopOS. They put ALOT of work into drivers for GPU's whereas Fedora don't. Also, Fedora is Red Hat so don't use them. They are evil.

Better to be Ubuntu based like PopOS

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Canonical isn't exactly clean from controversy, and Ubuntu is a rather opinionated distribution. I appreciate how RedHat contributes upstream as much as possible, and how vanilla Fedora is. In my opinion, that makes for a better user experience.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I don't get it, which work? On debian I run apt install nvidia-driver and everything works flawlessly. What do the pop_os driver do better? A GUI for that?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

System76 scheduler for example, or working hybrid GPU setups on laptops thanks to their custom driver.