this post was submitted on 20 Jul 2023
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Collapse

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This is the place for discussing the potential collapse of modern civilization and the environment.


Collapse, in this context, refers to the significant loss of an established level or complexity towards a much simpler state. It can occur differently within many areas, orderly or chaotically, and be willing or unwilling. It does not necessarily imply human extinction or a singular, global event. Although, the longer the duration, the more it resembles a ‘decline’ instead of collapse.


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This factors in some feedback loops which most sudies to date have ignored. Note, that it excludes extra warming caused by all the additional water vapour in the air.

For context, studies suggest that the largest extinction event in Earth's history (so far), the Late Permian Extinction Event, saw temperature rises of around 8°C.

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[–] [email protected] 24 points 1 year ago

If this is true, we're fucked.

at a temperature increase of 4 degrees C:

  • Sea rise of ~9m, putting 470-760 million at risk
  • Frequent and severe extreme droughts
  • Mass extinctions, risk of ecosystem collapse
  • Food insecurity, regional de-development
  • Half of all animal species face local extinction
[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Huh I guess that Arctic news blog guy was right.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 year ago

And those climate scientists decades ago. Guess the gamble of it fixing itself didn't pay off.

[–] kinther 8 points 1 year ago

I linked to that back in 2016 and no one took it seriously. It was a what if scenario back then. Now I'm like they knew

[–] MaxVoltage 7 points 1 year ago

dude the artic is where I want to move it will nice and warm

[–] TokenBoomer 18 points 1 year ago

There’s no way they can know that. There won’t be anyone alive to measure after 8 degrees. Checkmate science 🧬 /s

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Caveat: preprint, not yet peer reviewed.

[–] Redacted 6 points 1 year ago

Yeah I should have noticed before I posted, cheers for highlighting.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I think when/if this get peer review, we hold some big sad party about how fk'd we are

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

Nah, we'll pump another 35 billion tons of CO2 into the atmosphere, and continue along as always.

[–] Coreidan 9 points 1 year ago

And still that’s just a conservative outlook. It’s going to be way way worse.

[–] AquaticHelicopter 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Here's a summary of the paper from ClaudeAI. So it's not perfect but for anyone who doesn't want to read the entire paper and wants a decent summary:

Here is a summary of the key points from the scientific paper:

  • The paper examines climate sensitivity, defined as the equilibrium global temperature change caused by a doubling of CO2. Based on analysis of paleoclimate data from glacial and interglacial periods, the authors estimate the fast feedback climate sensitivity (ECS) is likely around 4.8°C for doubled CO2, higher than the IPCC estimate of ~3°C.

  • Climate response time, the time required to reach a new equilibrium after a forcing, does not seem to be getting faster in climate models even with improvements in ocean mixing. This is likely due to amplifying cloud feedbacks buffering ocean heat uptake and slowing surface warming.

  • Analysis of deep ocean temperature proxies over the Cenozoic era (past 66 million years) suggests CO2 levels were around 300-350 ppm in the Pliocene and 450 ppm at the transition to a nearly ice-free planet. This has implications for climate model sensitivity.

  • Aerosols likely have a more negative forcing than estimated by IPCC, based on the warming gap between models and observations. Restrictions on shipping emissions provide an opportunity to study aerosol effects.

  • The climate forcing from current greenhouse gas levels likely commits to 10°C warming including slow feedbacks like ice sheets, or 8°C if aerosol forcing remains around -1.5 W/m2. This shows the planet is far out of energy balance.

  • The authors argue that reducing emissions alone is no longer adequate - additional actions to reduce the energy imbalance like solar radiation management may be needed to avoid locking in multi-meter sea level rise.

In summary, the paper suggests climate sensitivity and committed warming are higher than widely assumed, implying an urgent need for policies beyond just reducing emissions.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago

The authors argue that reducing emissions alone is no longer adequate

Well we couldn't even be bothered with that step, so I guess we are well and truly fucked. Sionara earth, it's been fun!

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Hey, at least we won't be around to find out what happens if you add PFAS, aluminum, microplastics and other nanoparticles into an existing species over multiple generations.

[–] CodingAndCoffee 5 points 1 year ago

Don't forget lead and asbestos!

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago

We're basically on course for infinite warming. By the time anyone decides "maybe we should, like, seriously, try to fix this?", we'll be turning into Venus.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago

PDF warning next time please.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago

That's 18 degrees F for people who still use that

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

So 10° is going to be an ELE? We aren't going to be here by 2100 are we? Atleast not in the current way we live anyway.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Next 10 years are going to get fuckywucky 😄

[–] Uphillbothways 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It's been 5x as bad 10x as fast every single time. We're zombies eating ourselves. Our hunger only grows.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago

What is surprising is the rate at which it is getting worse!

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

I hope this paper gets peer reviewed - I want to believe it so bad as I agree with the general ideas (people ignoring feedback loops and other factors which impact the climate as well). Though I do wonder sometimes if there are any remaining negative feedback loops which we aren't aware of, and might help as CO2 levels worsen. It certainly seems like we're already aware of all negative loops (the ocean, plant life, rocks?, etc), so we're really only missing the positive loops