this post was submitted on 09 Aug 2024

-35 points (20.3% liked)

Asklemmy

43899 readers

1368 users here now

A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions

Search asklemmy 🔍

If your post meets the following criteria, it's welcome here!

Open-ended question
Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions. Assume best intent and be excellent to each other.
Not regarding using or support for Lemmy: context, see the list of support communities and tools for finding communities below
Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members
An actual topic of discussion

Looking for support?

Looking for a community?

Lemmyverse: community search
sub.rehab: maps old subreddits to fediverse options, marks official as such
[email protected]: a community for finding communities

~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_[email protected]~

founded 5 years ago

MODERATORS

[email protected]

-35

Any Free speech, censorship resistant lemmy, mastodon and fediverse altrnatives ? (sh.itjust.works)

submitted 3 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

33 comments fedilink hide all child comments

I am looking for projects of links agregators or micro blogs, that don't rely on centralized servers and especially no mods. I've had it with mod's power trips. and how personal biases affect heavy moderation.

I want to try something with no governance, maybe p2p, and with better transparency than lemmy.

all 37 comments

sorted by: hot top controversial new old

[–] [email protected] 28 points 3 months ago (2 children)

I'm not sure, but in my opinion, moderation is necessary. Any network without moderation will be flooded with Nazis and pedophiles. I don't think you'll have a good time.

[+] [email protected] -12 points 3 months ago (1 children)

At this point I am disappointed with every other internet model that came out so far. and I don't think that moderation has been a good addition, I can see the need for it if you are building a community around your own persona, like a streamer or influencer fandom. but for things like politcs and economies and stuff it just turns into echo chambers.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 3 months ago (2 children)

Sure but without moderation you're left with a Nazi echo-chamber. When there's no mechanism to kick out the Nazis, most normal people will leave over time. A platform that allows Nazis just becomes a Nazi platform.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 3 months ago (1 children)

You can go even broader. Its not only nazis and pedophiles. Every toxic behavior. If you dont have moderation, I can post pucs of dead children, gore and any phobia all day long and you can block me but you cant block the thousand bots I control (just an example, not real).

Moderation is evidently necessary, the amount is the point of discussion. People who despise moderation are either ignorant or toxic. Either they dont care about others having a reasonably pleasant experience without getting shit thrown at them or they like to throw it.

The internet and globalization has one major downside: we live in very different realities and some of us have very different needs than others. We dont belong in the same room all the time. We should be able to meet but we also need our space to be among our own. Thats why we have women‘s day in the public pools and certain other „discriminating“ measures. To keep folks safe and let them have fun.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

Yeah I agree for the most part. I will say I think moderation can have problems though (example: Reddit for a while did that thing where they would ban 1 fascist subreddit for inciting violence against minorities and then also ban 10 leftist subreddits for people saying John Brown was based).

But I think it depends on how the platform is designed and how moderation is implemented. Lemmy's implementation is some of the best I've seen.

But I do agree, some form of moderation is necessary.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago

I fully agree with your argument and it was implied in what I wrote. Of course moderation can and will have flaws. It is the extremes that just never work.

[+] [email protected] 21 points 3 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

[deleted]

[+] [email protected] -17 points 3 months ago (1 children)

You can't escape moderation and censorship in lemmy. If a moderator of a certain big community has a certain heavy bias towards a subject and moderates accordingly. you are just bared from such discussions. communities suffer from the same network effects as social media do. I can take heat and shitty people but I can't stand silencing.

I might check nostr. is it app relient ??

[–] [email protected] 13 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Host your own fediverse (Lemmy/Mastodon) instance. See who defederates from you.

[+] [email protected] -12 points 3 months ago (2 children)

No this federation experiment is at the end for me.

I don't believe in the federation model anymore. I was looking for a p2p protocol like a big bitorrent swarm, something more decentralized where no one has power over the discussions. I want to filter the content I want to consume. I dont't need someone else to decide what I should or should not read. I was hoping for an open network where every node have the same leverage and you only mod your own feed.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 3 months ago (2 children)

So basically, you don't want people to be able to defederate from you?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 months ago

Sounds like usenet with extra steps, no thanks.

[–] [email protected] -4 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (3 children)

No I want people to be able to block my post just as I can block other people's posts, but I don't need a moderator to block either my posts or other people's posts to be seen by everybody else engaging in that discussion, thread, theme, hashtag, what ever you name it.

When blocking is done at an individual level it doesn't silence or shutdown views or ideas from the discussions, every individual is free to not engage with people or ideas they don't agree with, but they shouldn't have the power to block those ideas for everybody else.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Create your own Lemmy community on your own instance then.

[–] [email protected] -4 points 3 months ago (1 children)

You kinda intentionally ignoring my point, I was asking for suggestion of different models, even different protocols if they exist. not instance - community - moderation based ones.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

But you could accomplish your goal by just starting your own instance and then refusing to moderate content on it - sure, yourinstance/c/news might not get as much activity (or maybe it will take off) but you can't force people who prefer to have moderation to play in your sandbox. You don't need a new technology, lemmy can do what you want just fine - you can even refuse federation!

Give it a shot, try running an instance and see the difficulties in dealing with open nazis and bots.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 months ago

unlike the others I see where you are coming at and it is also a bit of my dream. I would love to block or subscribe or throttle (give a rating that increases or decreases posts in the feed) at any level of individual, group, domain, etc. At the individual level I would like blocking to go both ways. I don't see their content and they don't see mine. I would like it to basically put us in different universes. I would like to be able to subscirbe to folks blocking lists. Im sure there is more that I have not figured out yet but I get where you are coming from.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago

I don't think that's feasible for anyone. Pretty soon your and every other user would be flooded with unwanted content, which will take time off all users individually to filter out. What this will result in is filterlists being made by community members, which the clients will use, some by default so that the system remains usable even for new users.

I don't see how that would make a meaningful difference.
I mean sure, technically now it's you who's filtering, but is it really you if 1. the filterlists are maintained by a 3rd party and 2. you don't have the capacity to audit all changes to the filterlists?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 months ago

What you look for seems to be Nostr

[–] [email protected] 10 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I'm afraid open federated protocols are a censorship resistant as you're going to get.

If you find a instance or a moderator on Lemmy is insufferable, you can start a new community or a new instance, lemmy is so small right now, basically everybody sees every new post every day. You make a new community, you make a new post, and people will see it.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 months ago

Exactly that. Each instances has it's own rules and as such, you can make your own on your own instance. Just don't be surprised that some instances block you for not abliging to their standards, as they also control their own federation, like each individual instances.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 months ago (2 children)

https://plebbitapp.eth.limo/

It's a ghost town so not really fun/useful.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago

omg! that has a cli client

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 months ago

Nostr

[–] P00ptart 4 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Sounds an awful lot like you're trying to find illegal shit and have plausible deniability that "that's not what I was looking for, officer! I swear! Someone just posted it on their own!"

[–] Labna 2 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Give a try to ZeroNet

[–] [email protected] -2 points 3 months ago

Isn't ZeroNet a dead archived project ?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago

Might be worth checking out Aether. Multiple dealbreakers for me though.

[–] [email protected] -5 points 3 months ago

Sorry, not gonna get much help here, people here like censorship and mods banning trans people for "leaking conversations." Free speech is generally seen as being for Nazis, despite the nazis actually hating free speech just as much as they do but for different reasons.

Basically your only option is imageboards like 4chan and 8kun (or whatever 8chan rebranded to.) 420chan is dead, so is 7chan iirc, and 2chan is still Japanese.

Or I guess there's always good ol' usenet.