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Place for discussion from a Libertarian perspective, meaning less top-down control and more individual liberty. In general, the intent is discussion about issues and not a discussion on libertarianism itself or any of its branches.

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Trump? Biden? No thanks as voter interest in 2024 is already waning (www.usatoday.com)

submitted 8 months ago by CheeseChief to c/[email protected]

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 8 months ago (1 children)

These are the people holding the door open for fascism.

[–] CheeseChief 3 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Who? The people who want something different that the same BS that's be presented for years?

[+] the_q 5 points 8 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (2 children)

[deleted]

[–] CheeseChief 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Incorrect.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

That's pure BS. Your vote only matters in a handful of states, so if you're in the majority that lives in a state that consistently supports one candidate, there's pretty much no risk to voting for a third party.

[+] the_q 1 points 8 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

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[–] [email protected] -1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Why? Biden doesn't represent my interests, and neither does Trump.

I voted for Biden last election because a credible independent candidate (Evan McMullin) had a chance of winning my state (Utah) but no chance of winning the presidency, so I thought it would be funny if my state flipped Dem for one cycle. But no, Trump still won by ~20%, though he got <50%, so I was happy with my vote.

So I'll go back to voting libertarian this year. Trump will likely get 60% in my state, Biden will probably get 30%, and third parties will fill out the rest. With any luck, the Libertarian Party will get >3% this year, I'm hoping for 5%.

[+] the_q 1 points 8 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

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[–] [email protected] -1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

That's not how voting works.

If Trump wins

Trump will win my state, that's pretty much a guarantee. So far, there's no realistic challenger to get the conservative vote in my state. Whether I vote for or against him has absolutely no bearing on national election results. I'll get far better results by campaigning for whoever the libertarian is than campaigning for Biden. That's a political reality in my state.

My vote for a third party indicates that people want another choice. People here claim to be libertarian, at least enough for Mike Lee (one of my senators) to give lip service to it (but he's not a libertarian by any stretch of the imagination). Most people I talk to want less government, hence why they vote Republican (they think Rs actually want smaller government).

So my vote for the Libertarian Party gives people who more clearly approximate my beliefs more clout, which means more of the "libertarians" in my area may consider voting for them instead of the Republican. It's literally the best option I have for political change without actually running you office or campaigning for a candidate (I have young kids and a full-time job, so neither is particularly feasible).

So no, get out of here with your "a vote for X is really a vote for Y," that's just nonsensical, especially in my area.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

What's up with the downvotes? This is absolutely a consistent libertarian perspective. It's pretty rare that mass media will do something libertarian friendly, usually they're appealing to one side or the other.

Libertarians should take this opportunity to really push hard for voting reform. Explain that something else (Approval voting, STAR, RCV, etc) could enable them to vote for a third party they like, without "throwing their vote away" if that candidate loses. This is a fantastic opportunity for all third parties to get the message out.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 8 months ago (1 children)

“It could be worse” isn’t particularly persuasive. But it’s looking like that’s what we’ll have. Again.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 8 months ago (1 children)

It can always be worse imo, but the fact is that it is rarely this bad. The two frontrunners are >70yo, which means there's a very real health concern. Add to that Trump, who has demonstrated himself to be a very real threat to the country by not acting to stop the Jan 6 violence.

It can and should be way better, we're just stuck because our voting system sucks and rhetoric seems to be having way more impact than before.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 8 months ago

It can always be worse….

Sadly, I agree. Just when we think we’ve hit bottom, we seem to find a deeper chasm.

I wasn’t suggesting that this isn’t true. It just seems a poor basis for making a decision and motivating voters.