this post was submitted on 11 May 2024
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Eurovision Song Contest

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Eurovision 2024 Grand Final Live Thread (self.eurovision)
submitted 6 months ago by Korne127 to c/eurovision
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Just like with the semi-finals, this is the live thread for the Grand Final of the Eurovision Song Contest 2024.
As there is (to my knowledge), no Lemmy equivalent to https://reddit-stream.com/, the best alternative is refreshing the website about once after each song. This should still be okay for now as this community is relatively small.
Sort by New to see the newest comments or additionally click on the Chat button to break the replies apart and even show the newest replies.

Thanks to @[email protected], there are some links for the Grand Finale:
The Grand Finale Livestream on YouTube: https://youtube.com/watch?v=ckGRHJ-J9G4

National broadcasts:

Perhaps one of these might not be geoblocked, but not guaranteed)

And some background information:

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

Alright not every time, but it's still dumb that it's not just democratic. Last year was also the jurys favourite despite Finland winning the public vote.

I don't feel like they deserve to win when it's not the people's favourite. I don't like the jury system. They werent even the public's number 2.

[–] Korne127 4 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

Honestly, it's not dumb. Televoting is super biased towards running order, just see how the same 10 songs last year got ranked in a completely different order in the semifinals and the finals by televoting only:

It's completely different, some places are basically upside down!

Also, there is just a reason the jury got reinstalled. While the televote is important in my opinion to also allow different songs that are experimental or just fun to have success at ESC, jury vote is equally important to really take a value at the singing quality and difficulty.
Just look at last year: Spain with one of the hardest songs and an insane singing quality got almost no points from the televote because it's not directly catch on the first listen, the jury was definitely necessary. Also, Poland (with a cheap summer song) got higher than Portugal.

The jury fixes those mistakes of the televote and the televote fixes the mistakes of the jury that sometimes doesn't care so much for different fun songs.

Edit: Fixed the image

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

Televoting is super biased towards running order, just see how the same 10 songs last year got ranked in a completely different order in the semifinals and the finals by televoting

Do we have any evidence that the jury's vote is not similarly biased? It may as well be. Also tbf many people only watch the finals so it could also be explained by a difference in demographic.

jury vote is equally important to really take a value at the singing quality and difficulty

I disagree on this point - the jury might be musical professionals, but they are not the authority on what is good or bad music. That is a personal judgement and the only way to agree on a winner is a democratic vote.

A difficult song does not equal a good song and an "easy" song can still be a masterpiece. I don't think you should be awarded points for singing a difficult, yet bad, song.

[–] Korne127 7 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

Do we have any evidence that the jury’s vote is not similarly biased? It may as well be.

Yep. Here is a literal study coming to exactly that conclusion: https://doi.org/10.4324/9781003188933-12
But also, you don't really need a study for that. It's pretty clear that people who just see songs and a recap and vote for what they have in their memory are more susceptible for it than a Jury that needs to literally rank every single song in a list from 1 to 25/26 in different categories.

And the image I posted above definitely shows how much running order impacts the televoting, as well as this image does (from when the running order was drawn at random):

That is a personal judgement

I'm sorry, but I just disagree. With a relative of mine having studied musical theory for years, I definitely know that there is a huge difference between opinions of random people and people who literally have spent years with the theory and can judge the quality of singing and the challenges of a song in completely different and finer ways. There definitely is another level of appreciation.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 months ago (1 children)

It comes down to a philosophical disagreement on whether art has inherent/objective qualities or whether it can only be judged from a purely subjective perspective. I strongly lean towards the latter while you and the EBU lean more towards the former. I don't agree that there truly is a different level of appreciation (perhaps a different method of reaching that appreciation, but just as valid). I think we can only agree to disagree on such a fundamental thing.

[–] khannie 2 points 6 months ago

What a nice, respectful disagreement to read. Genuinely.