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There shouldn't be such thing as gender x only spaces. Or race, or sexuality. The women aren't wrong about their points, but that doesn't make it an acceptable or thankfully, legal thing to do. I'm sure the guy who sued them did it for all the wrong reasons though. Both sides seem a bit slimy.
I didn't read into this particular issue, but I know the museum in question, have been there a couple times, so some context:
So it doesn't surprise me at all that the museum is trying to be women only, but I really doubt it will be permanent, and I suspect that the strong public reactions is exactly the point.
I kind of suspected this. Usually forseeble controversy like this is a ploy, especially with art and art spaces.
Depends on how much money the exhibit draws. Iirc the Wall of Vaginas was supposed to be temporary but it's still up as far as I know.
So there shouldn't be girls' locker rooms either?
Why do we need girls locker rooms when we’ve had the technology for mixed gender locker rooms for generations? We call them doors and use them even in single gender bathrooms.
Certainly it’s inappropriate for sexual predators to be able to leer at girls or women, but there I also no need to have a lack of privacy from those of the same gender, if that’s what people wish.
Locker rooms are a little different than bathrooms.
Apparently you've never been in a locker room before.
Modern locker rooms can be built with individual stalls so I understand the point being made. Personally though, it's less efficient to have a locker room with multiple single-serve rooms. Extra material, extra cost, decreased functional area, additional readying time. If you use a locker room frequently you know how invaluable all those things are.
These are the same excuses given for the enshittification of American bathroom stalls.
Fuck the companies - give the humans the privacy they like. Many locker rooms I've been in already have stalls, too - the shower stalls.
So my work did something like this when they moved buildings. Our old locker room was a long rectangular room with lockers on one side, a bench on the other. No privacy once you were in that space.
New one is mixed usage private change rooms and showers. It's a huge, huge, huge downgrade on the space. So, anecdotally, not on board. The old one still had bathroom stalls and private bathrooms if you needed it. I don't understand the push to make it all uniform when that's not the best use for the majority of the users. I'm not sorry about this opinion.
Why do you think that space is a huge downgrade though?
Not when you only need one large area rather than 2. Building double the showers and a shared area should be more efficient than having 2 sets of half for each gender.
It also makes it easier for families, non binary or trans people.
I mean, I can see where you're coming from but locker rooms are a significant part of sport.
Comradery is built in locker rooms and they are where young athletes spend a large portion of their sporting time. This is especially true for certain sports needing significant prep time like (ice) hockey.
With young people already facing a loneliness crisis, we don't need to be isolating them further to solve a non-problem.
Got this one from tumblr but its something along the lines of we go to the bathroom to shit, not have some special women fun time in there.
If there was a way to have my own room entirely without anyone else that'd be 100% preferred, but gender is the last thing im thinking about when someone's peeking down the cracks of my stall
Idk, everytime I go partying with friends it definitely seems like womens bathrooms are a communal activity.
Though I can't really see a party being the best representation for the populace no?
But who was nuance 🤔
I'm all for segregation spaces as long as essential spaces are open to all such as hospitals, parks etc. There are women only gyms where I am and I used to go to them because I felt safer and more comfortable.
This is a slippery slope to things you wouldn't want to be excluded from, if this appeal wins and creates precident to make much worse places. Thinking this is a feminist battle is narrow minded, selfish, and will absolutely backfire.
But the idea is that everyone can open their own and run it by the rules they want. If you or a group don't like how one thing is run, there is freedom to open up the same thing but make it open for all. This museum is a private one, rather than run by the government, and therefore they can do what they like. The government ones should be open to all because they are elected by the public.
I'm not at all in favour of forcing everyone to comply to uniformity for the sake of inclusivity but I'm all for ensuring that there are spaces available that are inclusive and that there's freedom to operate how you like, provided that it doesn't hurt anyone.
So what you're saying is I can open up a place, put a sign in front with 'Irish need not apply' and water fountain inside that says 'colored only', and that should be legal according to you?
Antidiscrimination law apply everywhere, regardless whether it's government or public or private. Otherwise America would still have Jim Crow. The laws that stop that stop this too, for the same reason. Discrimination is wrong, full stop. I don't give a fuck if women want their own spaces, be my guest, but barring people you don't want and then crying about it is moronic.
I've been to lesbian bars with my sister and even though my sister is gay, I got glared at, got scoffs, and sighs. I could tell I wasn't wanted. It kinda pissed me off, but whatever, I was there to drink with my sister and have fun. Imagine if that was a women only bar and my sister couldn't bring me. Then imagine all the other lesbian bars my sister wanted to bring me too (because she liked them!) were the same. You get my point. I don't want to live in that world. Some people do and I say, fuck those nearsighted fools.
Right. I see it similar to flavours. What if regulation stipulated that you needed to have food that everyone could eat? Nothing spicy. Must have meat options at veg restaurants etc. just so that no one would be discriminated against when they went out to eat. You'd miss out on different cultures, opportunities for innovation etc. Variety would die.
So, for context, I'm from Australia and familiar with the exact museum in this article. This museum is known for putting forward very provocative art. For example, there is a wall of plaster mould vaginas and they have a soap in the shape of a vagina called 'Cunt on a rope'. Last time I was there, they had violent and sexual imagery (with warnings outside the entry). This exhibit is par for the course for MONA. The owner is rich enough to drag the court case to the highest level but the intent has been achieved. It got people talking.
Next we can half separate but equal water fountains for coloreds and whites.
I would consider water fountains to be part of public infrastructure and essential, and therefore doesn't fit into the model that I'm putting forward.
I'm not proposing that essential things like roads, water etc. are segregated but, rather, private businesses can choose how they operate. The risk is public backlash and hurting the bottom line and other businesses can choose to be open and accepting.
For example, queer bars vs het bars. It's not segregated per se, but a business can choose how they want to operate to draw in the customers they want.