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The cynic in you seems not to see the bigger picture. If Russia suceed with this, they also proove they can get along with it. Start a war, wave with your ICBM's and threat everyone with nuclear warfare, rinse and repeat. And let us not forget the precedent it creates, that other dipshits countries can follow. They must be stopped right now, otherwise you are just postponing WW3, because Russia will not stop with their degenerated agenda.
Well, nothing stops someone from doing that today, except for MAD, which would exist even if Russia finished off Ukraine. NATO's 'line in the sand' is behind Ukraine, and not in front of it.
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Of course but they can get all the countries that are not part of NATO, wait a few years and then come back with full strength, new ressources, new alliances and then we can ask ourselfs if there was not a place in time we could have prevented this...
Also I don't like the current course of the NATO that much. I'm all in for deescalation but at some point and after all the threats from Russia I really wish the NATO would step up and say, we don't want any encounters with Russia but if they choose to declare one of our allies as "war party" because of their support to Ukraine, we are behind and will defend them. I think this also would give some countries more confidence in supporting Ukraine with better weapons and supplies and show Russia that we mean business.
The theory of sound, but most countries look towards their own self-interest first (unfortunately), so it may be harder to get all the countries together than you state.
Still it's something we should try, it's better to unite around peace and stability beforehand, than after a war.
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No, absolutely not. I'm son of an ukranian father, I want a united west against Putin and if I'm honest with you I think NATO should intervene like they did back in '99 in Kosovo.
I was deployed in Kosovo in 2007 and the people of Kosovo really appreciated the intervention of NATO, thanked us as soldiers after all these years and I think we have the same situation in Ukraine right now. Russia is commiting a genocide at the People of Ukraine. Russia must be stopped in their degenerated agenda of a new Russian Reich and I also think that a military operation on Ukrainian soil against russian forces would not lead to any stupid decisions by Putin. We "just" need to push them out of the country or at least create a no-fly zone and enforce this with NATO troops.
My comment about sacrificing of Ukraine was just based on time delay, if Ukraine could hold out and wait that long for the other countries to get their act together, or not.
I wish the best for Ukraine.
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I actually don't get where you think I would delay anything. I'm for a operation against Russia and more weapons and supplies for Ukraine right now, better yesterday. Hell, we should have established a NATO enforced no-fly zone right after the first missle pieces crossed the border of poland.
I wasn't speaking about you personally, but just the time it would take to unite non-NATO countries with NATO and present a united front against Russia, when it comes to stopping their aggressions. Apologies for the confusion.
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It’s MAD, and a few of those “line in the sand” countries get much easier to invade when you control Ukraine. I’d rather NATO not rely on Putin being a maniac who fears nuclear war because what if he’s not?
Dumb typo, I'm aware it's MAD (mutually assured destruction).
And I agree. Otherwise every nation with nukes can just bully other nations.
And in the case of Ukraine they actually had nukes, and gave them up on the promise of our protection, so I definitely think we should be protecting them all out, no matter what.
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