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Look up the Rape of Nanking. Studying that alone made me believe the bombs were warranted. That's not even including Unit 731, and the fact that the Japanese government still will not acknowledge their attrocities.
The bombs were a sad necessity to stop the monstrosities.
What does that atrocity have to do with the civilians who were nuked?
Would you have preferred napalm, like Tokyo?
Or a ground invasion? Like Berlin?
It has to do with them in that their government would only listen to the sound of their screams. That was the only way to stop them.
Except the government didn't give a shit about the peasants or they would have surrendered earlier when so many were dying from previous bombings and the war was already obviously hopelessly lost. Let's pretend what you say is correct, do you think Americans should get nuked because of the US carrying out the Iraq invasion and occupation along with the many other war crimes that the US carries out on a regular basis? We'll find out just how much the government cares about these screams.
Maybe not nuked because the invasion of Iraq was a far cry from Unit 731 alone, but America certainly fucked around and found out with 9/11. The government very much cry over the screams of those affected by 9/11 as well.
Thanks for actually pointing out a specific atrocity committed by the Japanese, which did result in higher casualties than the bomb, though it happened over months rather than minutes, but ok, I'll accept it.
Still, the point is, what atrocities were the Japanese capable of perpetrating at the time the bombs were dropped, that were prevented by it, and couldn't have been prevented in a different way. There's a big chance that the Japanese were going to surrender anyways, and if not, maybe just the threat of dropping the bomb (maybe, say, after a demonstration at sea or otherwise away from civilians) would've been enough.
They believe their Emperor was a God. The invasion of mainland Japan would have resulted in the Japanese fighting to the last man, woman, and child. Millions of civilian casualties. You suggest a test of the bomb would have forced Japanese surrender. But history tells the exact opposite story. There was a 3 day gap between the first and second bomb. Japanese high command thought the allies only had one bomb, refused to surrender. They only surrendered after the second bomb, when they realized this was repeatable.
let's not say nukes are good. did the nukes undo those atrocities?
No, but they stopped more from occuring.
I will say nukes are bad, though.
>they stopped more from occuring
this can't be proven
"The trolley might have stopped on its own"
it wasn't a trolley though, was it? it was individuals making decisions.
Japan surrendered due to the Bomb drops. This prevented the invasion of Japan that would have resulted in the total eradication of life on those islands due to the US's experience on Iwo Jima and Okinawa. The Japanese Isles would be glass statues without that surrender as the US would not risk troops and fire bombing would have done the job without the Nuke.
>Japan surrendered due to the Bomb drops.
we will never know whether they would have surrendered without them on the same time table.
The US would not have stopped without total surrender. That would not have come without massive loss of life. Whether or not more died to the bomb is a moot question. The better question is how many would have survived without it and would it have been classified as a genocide afterward.
There was no distinction between civilian and soldier on the eastern front after Iwo Jima and Okinawa, the civilians fought as combatants.
The Japanese still exist due to the bomb and the Emperor.
>The US would not have stopped without total surrender. That would not have come without massive loss of life.
neither of these statements can be proven.
>The Japanese still exist due to the bomb and the Emperor.
nuking two cities is genocide, and it isn't a favor to the survivors.