I was in France and when I tried my best French (which admittedly is not that great) all I got was an angry stare. Like, not one time, but in several cases. I did not understand why. I was just doing my best. 😢

So, I think the map is correct for France.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 8 months ago (2 children)

Did you perhaps forget to say bonjour/excusez moi or other necessary greetings? That'll make people look angrily at you regardless of how good your french is

[–] SendMePhotos 6 points 8 months ago (2 children)

Wait those are necessary for social courtesy? Like you have to say, "hello" first?

[–] [email protected] 11 points 8 months ago (2 children)

In case you're not joking, yes, the French are extremely formal, and starting any interaction without a "hi" will get you weird looks. Main reason Americans think the French are assholes, I guess

[–] SendMePhotos 5 points 8 months ago

Yeah... American here.. In my area, a greeting isn't necessary. It can be appreciated but isn't required. Even ending conversation without a closing is not uncommon. Spouse gets mad because people just hang up the phone when done instead of a proper goodbye.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 8 months ago

Hahaha, the French sternness/politeness reminds me of over here in Czechia

[–] [email protected] 4 points 8 months ago

Absolutely, I think a lot of Americans don't realise that when going to France, and end up having a subpart experience because of it. From our perspective, you are the asshole if you don't greet people appropriately, which often means we'll answer in kind.

The basics, bonjour, excusez moi, s'il vous plaît, merci should get you through that. Not assuming people want or can speak English can also be important, so if you can ask them "parlez vous anglais ?" before switching it's not a bad call

There's also obviously some people who are assholes or simply having a bad day, that's a universal thing and France is no exception.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (2 children)

I think I did say hello. I know I said s'il vous plaît and merci. However, I am Dutch and we are known for being a bit rude sometimes. So, maybe I did not behave completely correct according to French customs. I am not sure.

Edit: Or maybe they thought I was German. I did not think that happens anymore, but when I was a child and I would go on a holiday people were sometimes rude if they thought we were German because of WW2.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Unless you interacted with 90 year olds, it's unlikely anyone would be mad about thinking you're German these days.

It's entirely possible you encountered assholes, they do exist, though they're generally equally assholes to everyone regardless of country of origin so don't take it personally.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 8 months ago (2 children)

Dutch are not rude, but very direct. Even more so than the Germans. Try dialing the niceties and charms up to 11

[–] [email protected] 3 points 8 months ago

I think the directness sometimes is considered rude, however some people appreciate it. I think it depends on the person as well. When I was in Denmark, I found that the Danes were very nice, but even more direct than I was used to. I came there for work presenting my ideas, and they were quite critical (but in a good way). They also had lots of jokes about the Swedes.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 8 months ago (2 children)

How do the Dutch compare to the British? British culture is quite extroverted and smalltalk-y, is Dutch culture more introverted?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 8 months ago (2 children)

I think the Dutch are very open. They like to make a lot of jokes, I think, just like the British. They can be more direct and to the point than the British and they do spend less time on saying things out of politeness. They just want everything to be clear.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I think I observed this with Dutch people... It's definitely something I can appreciate, and which I strive to do myself (keeping things as clear as possible).

[–] [email protected] 3 points 8 months ago

Yes, the opposite side of the same coin is that I sometimes get confused if people are less clear.

I had a Turkish room mate at work and I asked him whether it was okay to open the window. Het said yes (at least I thought so), so I opened the window. The he started talking about people he knew that got pneumonia and he put on his coat. So, I closed the window again. That is something that might typically happen if you are not used to the difference between really yes, or yes, but actually no out of politeness.

It does not bother me too much, but it is quite typical. I just hope I am not creating issues with my lack of understanding.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 8 months ago

Ahh, thanks for characterising this

[–] [email protected] 3 points 8 months ago

No, they're quite open, like the British

[–] [email protected] 6 points 8 months ago (1 children)

We’re you in Paris mayhaps?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 8 months ago

I was actually in the Loire Valley on a holiday. It is quite touristy there, so I would expect them to be used to something.

[–] NiPfi 5 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I had only very friendly reactions to speaking okay French in Paris which goes against everything I expected. It happened multiple times that people spoke English to us and we answered in French because they forgot we were able to speak it but they obviously didn't mean to be rude with it, much thr opposite. Maybe I just ran into some very foreigber friendly servers etc.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 8 months ago

This was in the Loire Valley, not in Paris. This never happened to me in Paris. Maybe some cultural difference between different regions.

[–] robolemmy 3 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I know a lot of people have had similar experiences to yours, but mine was quite different. I was there in 2003 and 2006, so it’s been a while, but most everyone I spoke with was fine with my broken French. I only encountered two people who were outright rude, and they seemed to be rude to everyone, including other French people. During my first visit, I stuck to the touristy areas of Paris and Nice, but my second time was spent mostly in the countrysides of Provence. I ran into a lot of people who spoke no English, and they all seemed reasonably patient with my attempts at communication. The worst I ever got was people correcting my pronunciation and grammar, which I actually appreciated.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 8 months ago (1 children)

That sounds much better than my experience. Although I never had this issue in Paris either. It could also be that I was committing some faux pas without knowing it. Not sure.

[–] robolemmy 3 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I took classes at Alliance Francaise, and the teacher was from Normandy. She spent a lot of time talking to us about cultural differences and how to avoid (or minimize) giving offense inadvertently.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago

Maybe I should take such a class. I work at a university where many of my colleagues are from other countries, often out of Europe. I think it usually goes well. I try to be extra polite. But I think it also helps that people are aware of differences in background and try to mostly look at the intention of the other person. That is what I usually try to do also.