32
Crowdfunder for French police officer charged with shooting teenager Nahel M draws anger
(www.euronews.com)
this post was submitted on 04 Jul 2023
32 points (100.0% liked)
Europe
8324 readers
1 users here now
News/Interesting Stories/Beautiful Pictures from Europe ๐ช๐บ
(Current banner: Thunder mountain, Germany, ๐ฉ๐ช ) Feel free to post submissions for banner pictures
Rules
(This list is obviously incomplete, but it will get expanded when necessary)
- Be nice to each other (e.g. No direct insults against each other);
- No racism, antisemitism, dehumanisation of minorities or glorification of National Socialism allowed;
- No posts linking to mis-information funded by foreign states or billionaires.
Also check out [email protected]
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Server update ate my reply, sorry. Here's a summary from the top of my head. It is incoherent, my apologies.
From what I know, mixed messages about the law. A researcher from CRNS has said recently that the law is vague, but DPGN (General Directorate of the National Police) said years earlier that the law makes police more effective. The police has to my knowledge complained about lack of training.
I doubt legislative change will make a difference since police is only one side of the equation; the repeating customers of the police generally do not follow the law at all and also have a mindset of ignoring the police.
The questions which have to be firstly clarified in court/parliament/elsewhere are: 1. should police try to stop cars at all, and, if so, 2. should police allow stopped cars to flee.
I believe the answers are "yes" and "no", because anything else is the same as ignoring reckless driving and basically a decriminalisation of ignoring the police and the law.
As for how to stop a car... There is no good way to do it in an ad hoc traffic check against an uncooperative, fleeing driver. Shooting the driver is the only way, and there is a really narrow window to do this.
Shooting tires won't stop the car, it may make the car harder for the driver to control or accelerate. Depending on the car type (FWD, RWD, 4X4), the car may still be able to accelerate, with possibly less control, thus putting surroundings in more risk.
Nonlethal devices like gas or taser do not work if the driver window is closed, or if the car moves too fast.
Shooting at the engine may not have effect. Also, it can be difficult to hit the engine at all from the position and angle where verbal commands are likely given (front, near driver window). Furthermore, if the car accelerates quickly, there is a danger of hitting the passengers, bystanders or the driver while aiming at the engine.
In a planned traffic stop, one can have spike mats and obstacles etc. which can help stop a car. These are obviously not available if the car stop is done ad hoc by patrolling police, such as two motorcycle police in this case.
All in all, the police officers truly have a shit sandwich on their hands with these kind of cases, even if they follow the law to the letter.
PS. Not sure if you are aware of events in Baltimore in 2015 but it is interesting in this context. After the death of Freddie Gray, police started ignoring criminal activity to avoid going to jail for "wrong arrest". The effects of this behaviour could be seen on the crime level of Baltimore.
I get your point and I think we agree on fundamentals.
I'd be careful about using US as a point of reference though, as their police seem to have very deep systemic problems. Not to say that other countries didn't have those too, but the US really is in a league of their own.
Shit sandwich is a good allegory and of course there should be fair and open investigation every time an officer is accused of misconduct. And in the end I find it more important that the police is held accountable rather than being let off the hook.
FYI I brought up USA and case Baltimore as people are people, and they function in the same way in USA and Europe. The police profession is similar in its mechanisms in both countries -- law determines what is allowed to be done, law is words on abstract level and vague enough to push final per-situation decision authority to the field operatives. I expect the same behaviour of "look the other way" to occur in Europe, too, when given the same systemic setup, that is: heavy consequences from interpreting conflicting/vague requirements "wrong" in a split second decision, where the "wrong/right" is ultimately determined after the fact over several months with much more information.
Yes, I agree and I am sure they will investigate this case thoroughly. It will be interesting to follow it, there are so many levels it impacts (legal, political, national security, ...).