this post was submitted on 28 Feb 2024
215 points (97.4% liked)
Asklemmy
43786 readers
943 users here now
A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions
Search asklemmy π
If your post meets the following criteria, it's welcome here!
- Open-ended question
- Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions. Assume best intent and be excellent to each other.
- Not regarding using or support for Lemmy: context, see the list of support communities and tools for finding communities below
- Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members
- An actual topic of discussion
Looking for support?
Looking for a community?
- Lemmyverse: community search
- sub.rehab: maps old subreddits to fediverse options, marks official as such
- [email protected]: a community for finding communities
~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_[email protected]~
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
That's a bit of a non-answer, isn't it? I'm clearly referring to implementing leftist structures today, not historically.
Never tried for real, I see.
Why would one hate right ideas then, of the libertarian kind.
Read my other comment, it absolutely has been tried. If your point is that the relatively few historical examples are a sufficient sampling of data to determine that people sharing tools can never work, then I'm afraid you don't understand numbers, nor historical analysis.
You can learn from what has and has not worked, and analyze structures. It's possible! You just have to do it.
You know, of course, that the answer to that "if" is usually "no", and this is called a strawman argument.
No reason to be afraid! Sing and dance and hug your family, friends and house animals.
People have been sharing tools since eating less fortunate breeds of people, the optimal architecture of that is the point of contention.
More dodging, great! What's your point?
I've literally finished my comment with it.
You pretended you had a point, but left it open.
Leaving it open is a valid political position of making efficiency more important than ideology.
I don't know which architectures may be invented in the future to work, I'm not against them coming from leftist premises, but I've met fewer leftists interested in even imagining them than libertarians or even conservatives.
When most leftists are too busy with hating on groups of people and thinking about what others own, it's really hard to talk to them about anything real.
Efficiency is more important than ideology, correct. That's why I'm a leftist.
Don't worry, leftists aren't hating on groups of people (except fascists), just inefficient and failing systems. It's the right that hates on groups of people.
Leftist ideologies include dogmatic statements. Just like all other ideologies. Otherwise we wouldn't use the word "ideology" at all.
If this were true, you'd say that left ideas are the closest to your expectation of what's best and that'd be fine, and not call yourself leftist. Now it's as if you are putting ideology above practice.
Which would be the same as me always feeling as if I were lying while, say, saying that I'm a libertarian or a distributist, because I have no permanent attachment to any ideology, just these seem sane now. So I rarely say that and feel bad when I do.
Which efficient and not failing systems does your kind of leftists propose?
That's entirely stupid. Ideologies aren't about dogmatism, but about coherent groups of conclusions based on underlying analysis.
It's pretty telling that you out yourself as a Libertarian though, lmao.
I propose worker ownership of the Means of Production.
This sentence translates to choosing a model and then trying to hammer the reality to fit under it. Which is obviously dogmatism.
The funniest part is that leftist pseudointellectualism, where there is no actual discussion happening, but a leftist thinks there is because of the tone they use. Also hints at them acting this way in other situations, that is, being used to dogmatism.
Without dogmatism people change models like tools, each one for its own job. They don't call themselves any kind of -ist.
Literally the opposite of what I've said, lmao. Reading comprehension skills on par with your self-identification.