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I'd like to get away from "arch bad for new users" (self.linux)

submitted 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) by squid_slime to c/[email protected]

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When I say arch I mean the arch distro and all of its offspring.

Endeavouros

Arch-gui

~~Manjaro~~

Artix --maybe not though

My first enjoyable distro was manjaro, the manjaro element less so but using arch clicked for me. But even so if my first experience was using arch and archinstall then yes its not the easiest but its also not that difficult, arch is treated like a boss battle in darksouls.

So when a pre configured GUI arch is recommend I would like to see less scar mongering.

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (2 children)

I've been an Arch user for over a decade, and I wouldn't recommend it for newbies. It's not about the installation, in fact, installation is the easy part now, what with the official install script, pre-configured dot files, and the likes of EndeavourOS etc which provide a friendly GUI installer; the problem isn't installing Arch, it's what comes after.

For starters, because you've cheated and skipped installing the hard way aka "the arch way", you know little to nothing about how your system is setup and works, particularly around the bootloader, what goes into your initramfs, the DM config, and most importantly: how to deal with pacman issues. pacman isn't exactly newbie friendly:

You'll need to know how to deal with pacnew files and merge new parameters into your existing config files
Ocassionally you'll run into issues like the PGP signature not being accepted (which requires a manual import), or issues where you may need to update the keyring and pacman first before you upgrade anything else, or there may be a dependency issue where you may need to hold or rollback a package etc.

Obviously, none of the above requires you to have a rocket scientist-level IQ to figure it out, a couple of Google searches or the Arch wiki can sort you out - but the point is, it shows that you need to have some basic understanding of your OS internals, package mangement, and most importantly you'll need to be comfortable with using the terminal and CLI apps.

As a seasoned Linux user, the terminal is home for many of us, but believe it or not, it actually scares away many newbies - and pushing Arch onto these newbies only perpetrates the misconception that you have to use the terminal and punch in some hackerman™ style commands to use Linux. And we know that's NOT the experience at all with actual newbie friendly distros such as Zorin, Pop!_OS, Elementary etc, where you don't need to touch the terminal at all, you don't need to babysit the package manager or know any special commands or OS internals.

So please, please do not recommend Arch or any Arch-derivatives to newbies: you'd be doing them a massive disservice and potentially put them off Linux forever. Unless of course, you know that person well, and you know for a fact that they're tech savvy and won't shy away from using the terminal and getting their hands dirty.

[–] squid_slime 2 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

But ive had to import ~~gpg~~ pgp into Debian based distros to install applications

[–] [email protected] 4 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

Which distros exactly, and for which applications?

For the Debian based distros that I mentioned before (Pop, Zorin, Elementary), I've never heard of any normal user having to fire up the terminal. And by "normal" as in someone who doesn't have any special software needs and just uses Facebook, email etc, maybe ocassionally prints and scans stuff or plays games from Steam. And you can ask my elderly mother - she's been using Xububtu and Zorin for almost a decade now and never had to touch the terminal.

[–] squid_slime 0 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

Motioneye was one application and yea its not for a regular users but the only time ive imported pgp keys on arch was for mullvad VPN, and on a few more niche applications. Maybe I am just incredible lucky.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I first arch. Been using it for a couple of months. I used the installscript ofc. And I've not encountered a problem where I needed to know all those funny words that you said. I learned concepts as I needed them. Yet the things I strugle most is how tf git works (and tar magic args).

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

It's only been a couple of months, give it time. You'll surely run into one of these issues sooner or later, 100% guaranteed. But you don't have to take my word for it though, just browse the Arch forums and you'll see the kind of issues people run into - and so will you, eventually.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago (1 children)

well, more opportunities to learn. Anyways, real quick question, for you, caz you said you've been using it for a long time. My mouse reports different mouse wheel events when using it wired or wireless. It's with high res wheel that's the problem. Does this ring any bells for you? Caz it's really annoying to have a wireless mouse and I need to use it wired.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I'm not really a mouse person, but I recall there was a change made in kernel 6.1 which broke hi-res scrolling for some folks, but I believe it was fixed in kernel 6.3(?) Here's a thread discussing this: https://old.reddit.com/r/linux_gaming/comments/1032x5q/linux_61_update_screws_up_the_mouse_wheel_of_my/

FWIW, I just tested this with my Logitech G900 (kernel 6.6.14, KDE Wayland) - the scroll events reported using both the wireless (dongle) and USB are identical - they generate one REL_WHEEL and one REL_WHEEL_HI_RES event, which would seem to be the behaviour prior to 6.1. Not sure if any of this helps though sorry.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago

I update my kernel so if it would be fixed, I wouldn't have the issue. I tried downgrading just to see, and went even further back then 6.1, and if I recall correctly it still wasn't working. I fear it could be a mouse problem. I found an aur package that claims to disable high res mouse events, I might try that one out.

Thanks for your time none the less. Is there any way to replace my mouse's software, like jailbreaking or something, I'm guessing that's mouse dependant. Is there any FOSS mouse driver?