this post was submitted on 03 Feb 2024
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American manual/stick driver here.
Manuals are cheaper, more responsive, lower maintenance than wet-automatics. So even here where automatics are common, knowing that my skill gap vs you is literally saving me thousands in maintenance costs is definitely a big portion of my superiority complex.
However, with the dawn of CVT automatics, this is no longer true. CVTs are nearly maintenance free, have instant response, ideal power delivery.
So technology has changed, but not everyone recognizes the new era of advanced automatic transmissions.
But I'll absolutely still look down on any old-style wet clutch / torque converter based automatic.
Manuals are also an effective anti-theft measure here in the US, as most of us (myself included) don't know how to drive them properly.
I've read multiple stories of thiefs realizing they were stealing a manual transmission, and literally just giving up after driving a few feet. Pretty hilarious.
This answer hits the nail on the head.
Autos used to be really shit, in a country where fuel is expensive, and distances smaller, you'd only get an auto if you physically couldn't use the clutch.
Nowadays, they're much better.
If I don't end up fully electric on the next car, it will definitely be CVT.
Define "instant response"
CVTs are always "in gear", and quickly adapt to whatever torque vs RPM band your engine needs. At no point is your engine every "out of gear". Their "noise is wrong" to anyone used to older transmissions, but their performance cannot be denied or ignored. I'm very impressed with their tech. Its just a matter of getting used to it IMO.
Manual transmissions can "shift ahead of time", so with enough brainpower and paying attention, you should usually be in the correct gear for any situation. But any particular gear-shift takes time to accomplish. The exception are 0-60 kind of drag-races (erm, 0-100km/hr for yall Brits), where the manual effort to gearshift is unavoidable, but typical driving with a manual is very pleasant because normal roads are far more predictable and no one is trying to drag-race around every corner on public roads.
Traditional Automatic transmissions all take time, and the clock starts after the user pushes the pedal (unlike manual which starts when the driver notices that another gear would be useful, often ahead of time).. So automatic transmission is always slower.
Brits still use miles per hour. You might be thinking of the Irish, they use KM/H.... although they don't like being called Brits 🫠.
And yet any time you change throttle input they change gearing and have horrible "lag". While they may be always engaged they're never in the right "gear".
How many dragons have you tamed?
Even the zf8?
I can't say I'm a car buff unfortunately, so I can't say I've experienced that particular transmission yet.
Reading up on the transmission: it sounds like the torque converter could be replaced with mild-hybrid electric engines to help kickstart the transmission. This is very interesting to me, and I think that's a great way around the problems of traditional torque-converters.
I'd imagine that Mild-Hybrid ZF8 (torque converter replaced with electric motor) would be a serious contender in feel and response.
There's too many different cars with the ZF8 and too many different configurations to generalize. It seems like a promising design, but I'm going to bet that mild-hybrid ZF8 is the best feel. There's just a lot of downsides to the traditional wet-clutch / torque-converter frontend of transmissions IMO.
I don't personally have experience with a diverse multitude of cars (and transmissions) as a whole either, but i've heard plenty of good things online about the zf8 as probably one of the best torque converter automatics on the market for sporty driving (e.g. having very responsive shifts). It supposedly does not feel like a "slush box" which i'm assuming exhibits many of the behaviors that you're describing for a typical torque converter automatic.
In terms of drivetrain choices for daily driving, fully electric bevs seem to be the best fit. Instant torque, lots of torque, probably lower maintenance(?). And i say this as a lover of manual transmissions (my miata is currently in the shop though 😢)
A lot of the CVTs I was thinking about when I wrote that post were eCVTs like the Prius Prime.
I didn't realize that eCVT for Prius Prime is very different than... other... CVTs. There's probably more kinds of CVTs out there than any other transmission.
Prius Prime has two powerful electric motors (!!) for spinning two different parts of the planetary gear system, +1 ICE engine (so 3x total powered inputs) to the power split device. Toyota calls it eCVT, because CVT is emulated by computers controlling the 3x inputs. When one of the electric motors spins in reverse, it increases the effective gear ratio of the other parts of the power-split device, leading to a feeling of instant torque that's powered by the electric motor.
Honda Accord's eCVT is completely different, as I've discovered through discussion later down with another poster. Honda's Hybrid is closer to a pure electrical system and... they say eCVT for some insane reason but its just an electric motor really.
So its different than what other car manufacturers called a CVT. I didn't realize how many kinds of CVTs there were today when I wrote that post.