Asklemmy

43995 readers

867 users here now

A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions

Search asklemmy 🔍

If your post meets the following criteria, it's welcome here!

Open-ended question
Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions. Assume best intent and be excellent to each other.
Not regarding using or support for Lemmy: context, see the list of support communities and tools for finding communities below
Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members
An actual topic of discussion

Looking for support?

Looking for a community?

Lemmyverse: community search
sub.rehab: maps old subreddits to fediverse options, marks official as such
[email protected]: a community for finding communities

~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_[email protected]~

founded 5 years ago

MODERATORS

[email protected]

Realistically, how can Palestine gain it's freedom? (suppo.fi)

submitted 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

87 comments fedilink hide all child comments

We know what happens with peaceful protests, elections, and foreign interference (and more foreign interference), so how can Palestine gain it's freedom? Any positive ideas are welcome, because this situation is already a humanitarian crisis and is looking bleaker by the day.

Historical references are also valuable in this discussion, like slave revolts or the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising, although hopefully in the case of Palestine a peaceful and successful outcome can be achieved, as opposed to some of the historical events above.

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments

[+] [email protected] 1 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (2 children)

[removed by mod]

[–] [email protected] 0 points 10 months ago (1 children)

How much land do you think Ukraine should cede for peace? How much control should Russia have in Ukraine's government in exchange for ending the occupation?

These are honest questions, I would like to know what you and others think.

Also, are you aware of Palestine's proposal to respect the 1967 borders, which Israel rejected?

[+] [email protected] 3 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

[removed by mod]

[–] [email protected] -1 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I totally agree with you on Ukraine.

I think the main success of the current narrative on Palestine is disguising Israeli expansion as Israeli self-defense. Here's a map of the UN partition plan for Palestine and you can check today's borders to see how much land Palestine has ceded to Israel, unwillingly of course. Israel was created as a result of the Palestine Civil War and have been expanding ever since. That was the plan the whole time, as it says in the above linked page:

Zionist leaders viewed the acceptance of the plan as a tactical step and a stepping stone to future territorial expansion over all of Palestine.

I don't see how Palestine is any different from Ukraine in terms of needing to cede land to the invader in exchange for peace. What do you think? I'm sure there's a lot I'm not aware of.

About the negotiations and truce offered to Israel:

https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna24235665

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/01/hamas-new-charter-palestine-israel-1967-borders

Oh and one more thing, you said

For a war Russia started? With no justification?

but there was justification, I believe it was NATO encroachment or something about Nazis in Ukraine. I'm not saying it was good justification but I would like to point out that there was justification (just like Colin Powell in front of congress with a vial of white powder that was something something WMDs in Iraq) and I'm sure someone, somewhere was saying "doesn't Russia have the right to self defense?". If I understand correctly, the justification for Israel invading Palestine in the first place was "we are God's chosen people and we want this land" which is an extremely flimsy justification but that might just be my personal opinion because I'm not religious.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

The Olmert proposal where Israel wanted to keep 10% of the West Bank (not that we know much about the proposal or why it failed, but from that point it's a no-go)? And what opportunity in 2005 they fucking blockaded the place as soon as they left.

[+] [email protected] 4 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

[removed by mod]

[–] [email protected] 0 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Actually you're both wrong, in 2005:

Following the withdrawal, Israel continued to maintain direct control over Gaza's air and maritime space, six of Gaza's seven land crossings, maintains a no-go buffer zone within the territory, controls the Palestinian population registry, and Gaza remains dependent on Israel for its water, electricity, telecommunications, and other utilities.[4][75]

A British Parliamentary commission, summing up the situation eight months later, found that while the Rafah crossing agreement worked efficiently, from January–April 2006, the Karni crossing was closed 45% of the time, and severe limitations were in place on exports from Gaza, with, according to OCHA figures, only 1,500 of 8,500 tons of produce getting through; that they were informed most closures were unrelated to security issues in Gaza but either responses to violence in the West Bank or for no given reason. The promised transit of convoys between Gaza and the West Bank was not honoured; with Israel insisting that such convoys could only pass if they passed through a specially constructed tunnel or ditch, requiring a specific construction project in the future; Israel withdrew from implementation talks in December 2005 after a suicide bombing attack on Israelis in Netanya[28] by a Palestinian from Kafr Rai.[79]

Gaza hasn't been free since at least 1967.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_disengagement_from_Gaza