this post was submitted on 11 Jan 2024
81 points (92.6% liked)
Linux
48655 readers
300 users here now
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).
Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word "Linux" in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.
Rules
- Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.
- No misinformation
- No NSFW content
- No hate speech, bigotry, etc
Related Communities
Community icon by Alpár-Etele Méder, licensed under CC BY 3.0
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
It's been ready for general use for years, most distros have had it enabled for a long time.
But yeah it's not ready for every use case. Then again, neither is X11, I suppose.
It's not ready for existing use cases that X11 has. And won't have some of the features.
The Wayland team, from what I can tell, seems to be comprised of "architectural purists". They're so concerned with the right way to do things they're ignoring pragmatic impact to downstream apps. And so they debate over trivial things like whether to allow "windows to position themselves" and "whose job is that?" which is silly and has been solved by practically every other OS.
So yes - application teams haven't caught up. But because Wayland is a huge lift from X11. You can't just change everything and then bitch about how the rest of the world simply hasn't "seen the light" yet. It's a lot of work for an application team that provides zero new functionality for users. And it's ridiculous that the Wayland team is trying to push blame on to others at this point.
@TheGrandNagus @atzanteol I agree with you about purists and poor attitude towards reality but at the same time I’ve been using Wayland for a few years now without personally having issues
When I try it I get a blank screen and nothing happens. So. 🤷
@atzanteol guy at sh.itjust.works can't get shit to work :)
jk
at the same time, besides maybe rendering my screen 0.0000001ms faster than X, i can't tell you anything it does in any way better or different than X
puts pictures + words on screen, yay
Hah!
Again, they've had well over a decade to move to Wayland. It hasn't been suddenly sprung upon them.
If they don't want to move, they don't have to. But that does basically entail giving up on Linux.
And it doesn't provide zero new functionality... I do things on my PCs that I can't do with X11. Multiple monitors with different scaling and refresh rates, tear-free, 1-to-1 gestures, actual security, better performance, fewer bugs, soon there will be HDR. All stuff that's either not possible with X11 or require hacky workarounds.
You talk of the "Wayland team", but you need to understand... the "Wayland team" is the X11 team. They are the same people. They left X11 and have moved to Wayland.
Tbh, all of this bickering is futile. We know Wayland is the present (of most distros anyway), and the future. App developers can either accept that or they can abandon Linux. There's not really a viable medium-long term alternative, even the slower-moving projects are moving to it. X11 is on life support.
This is like when everyone was complaining about the move away from DOS. At some point, people have to accept that the platform has been updated.
Are you under the impression that I'm arguing against moving to Wayland? I'm not. I'm saying the team has done a shit job of managing the migration. And yes - that's the X11 team.