this post was submitted on 18 Dec 2023
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I don't see how men being gentlemen and dealing with their inner demons are mutually exclusive
I do see peyote being the part that doesn't fit in though...
Psychedelics can help you identify, understand, come to terms with accepting, and managing, the things about yourself you wouldn't otherwise. That begets the healthy self aware gentleman
They can also mess you up even worse
So can anything. That doesn't diminish the other arguments. Especially without per capita data on outcomes. If you have this attitude, you might be unaware of the scale of people that have at a minimum experimented one time with psychedelics. It's exponentially greater than the number of people worse off. Booze on the other hand.. definitely seen fun times go sideways.. and that's the type of thing you hear "we've all been there" .. per capita booze and others def messed up more lives
Yeah, I don't want to down play the effects that properly administered psychedelics seem to be having in clinical trials.
But I've got a couple buddies who lost themselves to drugs. Specifically thinking of a pair of close friends who fell off the rails in college after getting really into pot and then LSD. I don't care how much people say it doesn't meet the clinical definition of addictive, weed will get you hooked and make you a lethargic POS if you let it.
And so given the very niche usage of peyote, I would assume those who use it are more likely to fall into the latter type of drug users.
That said, if you've got scientific write ups you can link me to to the contrary, I'd love to learn more about it.
Psychedelic therapy has significantly helped me with my PTSD. What you're talking about is self medication. Your friends are trying to find something they need. The problem isn't the drugs, it's the lack of support. It's not like they were fine and suddenly got swallowed by drugs. Anyone doing a bunch of drugs of any kind has problems that they need help with.
I'm glad to hear that worked for you. I don't know that I agree with everything you've said, but what You've said seems to have a logic basis. I do wish I'd been more mature and put together enough on my own end to help my buddies out back in the day.
But all of that aside and looping back the the original post, I do think the line "do peyote" implies a more recreational (as opposed to clinical) application of the drugs.
I think that there's some missing context that peyote is generally ceremonial with a long history of being part of indigenous religious traditions.
I did psychedelics recreationally once and it was one of the worst experiences of my life, but I think it made be a better person. But generally, I strongly disagree with recreational use of psychedelics. It's extremely dangerous to experiment with psychedelics without an understanding of what one is going in to. I don't think that clinical is the only other option here. There are a lot of places inbetween. But yeah, anyone talking about recreationally going out to do peyote without a whole lot of mental preparation and support is playing with something pretty powerful and probably won't have fun.
So if we're talking about demographic data on peyote users, could you give a more specific characterization of the latter type? Do you mean people who frequently use other illicit drugs? What are some datapoints that would help describe the type of person you're talking about (age, sex, level of education, income, ethnicity*, nationality*, frequency of use, etc.)?
*Relevant due to religious use under the American Indian Religious Freedom Act in the U.S.
Asking honestly to see what exists re: scientific write ups (though given the topic there are possible problems of under-reporting and selection bias). Found this to start from but haven't dug into it yet.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25187051/
If we're talking about the possible benefits and pitfalls of drug-induced psychedelic experiences generally outside of clinical contexts, this is tricky, but here are some write-ups of interest you could start from. This is intended simply as a signpost.
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/02698811231158245
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyt.2022.831092/full
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/339425864_Self-reported_negative_outcomes_of_psilocybin_users_A_quantitative_textual_analysis
Everyone I know who's says utter garbage like this is a mega-weed-junkie who's ruined their life.
I've seen two friends lose themselves to weed, a drug that's so utterly normalized nowadays. I don't need to know what some other bullshit does to people.
You picked the wrong internet stranger to peddle your bullshit.
I'm a corporate executive. A provider. A law abiding citizen. After taking care of my family, I create jobs for other Americans and pay high wages to offshores employees. I volunteer. I'm a good neighbor.
Most of my peers and colleagues agree with my sentiment. Many of us would even credit having an open creative mind in part for our successes.
The only normalized drugs are alcohol, nicotine, and opiates. All of which KILL PEOPLE, 2 of which KILL OTHER PEOPLE (drunk driving and second hand smoke), and the other kills families and communities. They fund mega corporations, not small businesses.
You have friends that aren't successful in typical ways and you judge them. Fine. Tell me about us junkies ruining people's lives and killing people?
Now, I showed you mine. Tell me what substances you use, and your successes, and contributions to others. Or are you just a closed minded miserable cunt with nothing to offer but to tear others down for their differences from you?
Let's go, your turn.
EDIT: I too am an AMD man.
EDIT 2: I didn't need to be that aggro. I'm not triggered but I do feel strongly about my comments. I didn't need the ad hominen at you, which was reactive on my part. I own my responsibility in that but if you want to communicate with people that you disagree with, in actual good faith, for the purpose of persuading their beliefs, that requires effort. You should learn the power of language. Junky is a word with a lot of power. I've lost friends to DEATH bc of real and addictive drugs like heroin. Don't equivocate things you don't understand.
Well, good for youuuuuuu
I have two friends with their lives ruined, which means infinity more to me than you