this post was submitted on 14 Nov 2023
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The Dutch minister of Defense is furious about the leaking of a memo that confirms israel does not have a plan in Gaza and is trying to maximize civilian casualties.

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[–] [email protected] 42 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (9 children)

israel does not have a plan in Gaza and is trying to maximize civilian casualties.

To be clear, these are OP's words and represent their opinion; neither part of this sentiment is in the memo or article.

The Dutch embassy also noted that the IDF applies “elements” of the Dahiya doctrine - a strategy first used in the war in Lebanon in 2006 which "intends to deliberately cause massive destruction to infrastructure and civilian centers" while taking large numbers of civilian casualties for granted. That violates the laws of war, the memo states.

The Dutch Defense Attache at the embassy in Tel Aviv believes Israel is trying to destroy Gaza's infrastructure and civilian buildings and doesn't give a shit about the civilians that will die as a result, not that they're "trying to maximize civilian casualties." And that is a plan, it's just that the plan is horrific and the Defense Attache believes their goal is unachievable:

According to the Dutch embassy, Israel’s stated goal of “a clear military victory over Hamas” is impossible to achieve. Even if Hamas is almost completely destroyed, the fundamentalist movement’s ideology will live on. “There is no military answer to this, this is a political issue.”

[–] Piecemakers3Dprints 21 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Frankly, OP's words are closer to a summary of the quotes you provided than you seem to be insinuating...

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yes and no. It's fairly certain the Dutch embassy would object strongly to OPs summary. The difference between targeting civilian infrastructure with no regard for civilian lives is very different from actively targeting civilians, even though both are deplorable.

It's important not to simplify these things. By exaggerating and wrongfully quoting people you open up for a pedantic debate about differences in nuance, distracting from what is really important: They are targeting civilian infrastructure, not giving a shit how many civilians they murder in the process.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It's more than not giving a shit. Killing civilians is a feature not a bug, it helps Israel's war aims in several ways and is entirely intended.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

That's your words, not the Dutch. Doesn't mean you're wrong; that's a different debate entirely.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago

Israel "intends to deliberately cause massive destruction to infrastructure and civilian centers" while taking large numbers of civilian casualties for granted. That violates the laws of war, the memo states.

I guess you're arguing the memo only accuses them of intending to destroy "civilian centres", not civilians. But ""taking large numbers of civilian casualties for granted" is part of the intent. Israel is the arsonist who knows there are children sleeping in the house.

My view is that the Dutch are, in diplomatic language, saying that.

[–] Piecemakers3Dprints 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Honoring their CYA phrasing on a mere technicality is a pretty shit take, citizen.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Personally I think warping people's word for no good reason other than to simplify things to better fit your own interpretation of reality is a pretty shit take, but each to their own I guess.

[–] Piecemakers3Dprints 2 points 1 year ago

Clarifying purposefully obfuscated phrasing is hardly "warping", and your assumption of narrative intent on OP's part is beneath you. How many of those politicians even remotely connected to that certified release above do you suppose even know your name, much less give two soggy shits if you exist? Don't bootlick, and don't pontificate. 🤷🏼‍♂️

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