VeganDE

Part 2: Morality

What is moral for you? What does it require?

I already gave my interpretation before. Instead of repeating myself, l'll try to respond to your points and try to clear misunderstandings.

I was thinking that for you and me, moral - in a nutshell - means distinguishing actions between “good” and “bad”, where the exact definition of “good” and “bad” can vary as well as the ethical framework which might be built on that.

Yes, this is something I also can agree with.

But I don't agree that "distinguishing" it requires "active contemplation" to manifest in the behavior of the entity.
You imply that if we don't "actively contemplate" the act then it cannot be "good" nor "bad".
This is analogous to the idea of a tree in the forest emits no sound if nobody hears it.
Well, I think we simply disagree on that.

In my interpretation, acts can be good or bad regardless of how you "contemplate" them. Even if it were done without "contemplation" if it results in killing humans then it'll be "bad" for humanity (and "good" for some other species?). There's an objective morality emerging from natural selection, though at the same time there's certain subjectivity when we have different species competing. Some aspects might converge, maybe even some level of "symbiosis" in which we have convergent goals that are "good" for both species, but that doesn't make it equal.

Take a plant for example. It will grow towards light. Is this moral behavior? I say it isn’t. I say it is a reflex. If the plant is not able to reason about whether it might be advantageous or not and thereby “good” or “bad” for its survival to grow towards light and if it does not have the possibility to “decide” against growing towards light, it can not have moral.

But that's under your interpretation of morality.

Under mine, it is "good" for the plant to exercise a behavior that helps the survival of its species. My interpretation of morality relates to natural selection.

In fact, even our "higher" level human moral is constructed on "reflexive" instincts (emotions) as a basis, the only difference is that humans react to those reflexes while applying logic and reason in their behavior, because that way we can be more logically consistent at reacting to them. But the actions are ultimately driven by the same type of low-level instincts that drive all living things.

I'm curious: why do you think emotions are the basis on morality?
We agree on that, but I feel our reason as to "why that is" might be different.

How do you know something is "Good"?
Why do you think "treating others like you would want you to be treated", for example, is "Good"?
My answer would be: because it's evolutionarily beneficial, it helps our survivability.

Under your view of morality: why does it often makes us "feel good" to act "good"?
For mine: because it's a reward that increases survival, so it passes natural selection.

But it can not think about that in such a way that it could make the decision to stay. It lacks the cognitive abilities to do that.

Yes. but that's not a problem in my interpretation. Mine does not require "thinking", like I explained before.
This is simply a matter of definition, we can repeat it many times but it does not make it more/less true.

you are still able to think about your actions before you act on them. And not only think in a goal oriented manner about that, but in an ethical manner.

Yes. But this is just as true in your view of morality as it is in mine.
The difference is that to me, being "able to think" is an extra, not a requirement.
Also, I'd say you still are "goal oriented" when ethics are the goal.

someone suffers from a brain injury which incapacitaes their higher reasoning. Then they kill someone. Wouldn’t you argue that this is something less “bad” than someone who kills someone else intentionally?

The act is still "bad", because it negatively affects survivability of the species.
Like I said in what you quoted: "it just shows that [this person's] “thinking” wasn’t the cause responsible for [their] behavior"

So, what the lack of "thinking" changes is the chain of responsibility. The "thinking" of the injured person is NOT responsible of the crime. So their "thinking" should NOT be punished. Instead, other measures should be taken to prevent killings.

That doesn't mean that the act of killing unintentionally has no moral. The act is still something that we should try to prevent. It's a "bad" act, so we should try to minimize it. Or do you think we should not and that it's neither "good" nor "bad"?

One might argue the lack of intentionality might have less/more impact on human survival. So it might be less/more "bad", but that would still be consistent with my interpretation. I'm not sure it is with yours, since you said that "thinking" the act was a requirement for it to be "good" or "bad".