this post was submitted on 16 Oct 2023
1168 points (97.3% liked)

World News

39114 readers
2568 users here now

A community for discussing events around the World

Rules:

Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.


Lemmy World Partners

News [email protected]

Politics [email protected]

World Politics [email protected]


Recommendations

For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] 1847953620 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

what's the part that needs proving?

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago (3 children)

That it can scale up to an entire society. That it can be sustained indefinitely, or can be made self-sustaining.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

What proof would be satisfactory though?

All monetary policy is experimental to some extent... but you don't need to start with the big money.

Here in Australia average full time salary is $80k. I don't really know but maybe an appropriate UBI in a utopia might be half of that, or lets just say $3k a month. You wouldn't just start transferring $3k to everyone's bank account every month and see how it goes.

You'd start with a small refundable negative tax. We already have these in our tax system they're called rebates or offsets. You don't start with $3k a month, start with maybe $2k a year. So everyone pays $2k less tax every year, and people that pay less than that in a full year would get the balance refunded to them.

With something like this it would be fairly easy to measure whether or not it's providing the purported benefits.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Something other than a tiny pilot program that 'proves' people do better when they have more money, for starters. That's all we ever see, but if that's the best it can do then UBI is a pipe dream and we should focus our efforts elsewhere.

With something like this it would be fairly easy to measure whether or not it’s providing the purported benefits.

Again, that's not the part that needs proving in my mind.

[–] Mango 3 points 1 year ago

I think what needs proving is that society at scale can work without this. So far as I can tell, it can't. At the same time, I'd rather not give anyone the "my 'whatever' supports you so get in line behind me" bullshit they like to say.

[–] girthero 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The state of Alaska has been doing this for some time with the Alaska Permanent fund. Just under a million people in Alaska. Seems rather significant to me.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

That money comes exclusively from oil and gas export revenue, though. It's not a model that most other states can follow.