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If you're feeling left out it's probably because you defend billionaires who would mince you into fertilizer
(lemmy.world)
this post was submitted on 11 Oct 2023
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Wealth redistribution is good. Socialism definitely could end up being better than capitalism with the right implementation and regulations. A socialist revolution is a bad idea; wealth redistribution can be implemented in capitalism. Lobbying is real, but voting still makes a difference. Vote in more than just the presidential election and canvas for issues or politicians you support. Thank you for coming to my ted talk.
That's what capitalists want you to think.
very enlightening i never thought of it that way
All the generally established capitalist wiggleroom like minimum wages, paid holiday, affordable health care, education instead of manual labour for children etc were established by massive strikes and (threats of) violent masses.
I don't really get what you mean by wiggle room. Also are you implying that all positive change related to workers rights entirely centered around strikes/violence without any action by the government?
Governments acted only when forced to by people organizing outside of established politics. Voting has had little to do with true progress, it's a lie told to stifle organization.
Isn't that the point of unions? To have leverage over the place you work so they have to treat you right? Strikes and protests are a good way to raise awareness and pressure higher ups to act, but if you don't vote in the goverment system than you have no real leverage over the people who speak for you. True progress? What about gay marriage being legalized across the US? What about the cops who killed George Floyd being convicted of murder? That isn't "true" progress? Yes there have been steps back like Roe V Wade, but progress is not a continuous upward trend in the short term. But I'm pretty sure abortion is not a settled matter in the US and a lot of people don't want it.
You think the George Floyd case was a good example of electoral politics?! That's actually more of a point of organizing outside of party politics. Your point of gay marriage is better, but honestly in my mind that has more to do with brave queer folk living their lives and normalizing it than any politician.
Yeah the George Floyd riots did not help that it was very polarizing. What? The point is progress was made through the political system. Yes it was normalized, but those situations are not in opposition to eachother. Usually things become socially acceptable and then they become more legally acceptable.
Calls protests riots.
Yeah have a good one mate.
Yeah I dont see protesting as acting outside the political system. I see it as an important part of it that helps spread awareness as I said before...
? I know there were a lot of actual protest but yeah there definitely was rioting.
Government reacts to the mass. 1 person = 1 vote is another one for the gained by violence list, btw.
You think the issues that are present in todays system are equivalent to slavery? Yes working conditions are a crap shoot, but its not slavery we at least have some safety net systems in place. Also, unions seem to do a pretty good job in places they are implemented.
Unions are not an inherent part of capitalism. Capitalism is anti-unions by default, the acceptance of unions is called the 'social peace': the one and only reason unions are accepted by the capitalists is the unions threat of mass strike and violence. All the social policy good sides to capitalism were forced upon the system by organised workers. If a capitalist can employ a 12 year old for less than the price of a decent meal a day, they will. And they do. It's only because of pressure from unions and their threat of mass strike and violence that this is no longer allowed in somewhat developed countries.
Unions arent an inherent part of capitalism, but they are present in our system and I want that presence to expand. I consider strikes and protests as part of the system. Protesting is a protected right in the US. Yeah I don't know what to tell you, but we do have political power. The votes that are cast are generally reflected in the policy. Why do you think corporations bother making propaganda? They need to make sure people vote the way they want because even corporations understand the influence individuals can have on their business. Change has been and will continue to be made within the system. Does that mean violence will never occur? No. It will, but that violences effect is mostly reflected in the awareness/stance on a issue. Violence is very polarizing. Who was more effective; Martin Luther King or Malcolm X?
we have been trying everywhere for decades, and inequality is only getting worse. it really can't.
voting is doing almost nothing if you really examine the policies put by most politicians, even most of the ones claiming to be progressive.
thats because we can only go so far within capitalism, and changing the players of the game will not do much while the game itself has glaring flaws.
progress isnt a continous upward climb in the short term. In the 90s crime shot up and no gay marriage soooo. We can definitely go farther with capitalism like with higher taxes on the rich, minimum base income, etc. Voting does matter, if you dont vote you have no leverage over those who speak for you.
no point of going farther with oppression, when we obviously reached its limits. shit, we are headed towards hell on earth because capitalism cannot deal with that.
you want to vote then go vote, and invariably when they do jack shit, wait 4 more years.
How has it reached its limit? I just gave two examples of ways it can improve. Voting for the president is not the only thing you can do. You can canvas for politicians or issues you believe in and vote in other levels of the government. I don't get the sentiment of voting doesnt matter so we wont vote. Its a self fulfilling prophecy. We are not heading to hell on earth because there are a lot of people more informed than either of us working on solving all different kinds of issues. I dont understand blaming capitalism for everything. It completely hand waives the nuance of situations and how we can realistically improve them.