this post was submitted on 01 Sep 2023

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The technical merits of Wayland are mostly irrelevant (utcc.utoronto.ca)

submitted 1 year ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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In response to Wayland Breaks Your Bad Software

I say that the technical merits are irrelevant because I don't believe that they're a major factor any more in most people moving or not moving to Wayland.

With only a slight amount of generalization, none of these people will be moved by Wayland's technical merits. The energetic people who could be persuaded by technical merits to go through switching desktop environments or in some cases replacing hardware (or accepting limited features) have mostly moved to Wayland already. The people who remain on X are there either because they don't want to rebuild their desktop environment, they don't want to do without features and performance they currently have, or their Linux distribution doesn't think their desktop should switch to Wayland yet.

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Yea, I'm currently using Wayland because Manjaro comes with it but like 90% of the programs I use launch with xwayland anyway. I'm not a developer but can't they just give it proper support for all programs? Like run those programs like they do on X11. Seems pointless if nothing works on it.

Not to mention my laptop with Nvidia graphics, that is just so broken on Wayland I ended up switching it to X11 and I'm very lazy.

[–] orangeboats 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Most programs you use (provided they are FOSS) probably already support Wayland, they just don't do it by default. The following list of environment variables can go a long way in making your system largely Wayland-native.

GDK_BACKEND=wayland
QT_QPA_PLATFORM=wayland
MOZ_ENABLE_WAYLAND=1
#SDL_VIDEODRIVER=wayland # this one is dangerous if you play games

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

My desktop is basically just used for gaming so like nothing there is FOSS. My laptop is used for work which requires a ton of remoting so again Wayland would not work.

[–] woelkchen 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

My laptop is used for work which requires a ton of remoting so again Wayland would not work.

Funny how a 10 second "wayland remote desktop" web search disproves that claim.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Last time I tried that it just launched through xwayland. And currently my laptop is using X11 because Nvidia GPU so I can't re-test.

[–] woelkchen 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

And currently my laptop is using X11 because Nvidia GPU

All notebook released in the last several years with an NVidia dGPU also have an AMD or Intel iGPU.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Sure and X11 actually works with it's GPU while Wayland causes more issues than its worth. I'm not gonna use software that locks off my GPU especially if that software has no advantages for me.

[–] woelkchen 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Wayland causes more issues than its worth. I’m not gonna use software that locks off my GPU

Sure, shift the blame of NVidia's shitty Linux and Wayland support to Wayland. How on earth could a multi-billion dollar company ever manage to make proper drivers only 11 years after Wayland 1.0 has been released...? THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE! WAYLAND BAD!

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Never said that. It's probably going to be better at some point but for the average user X11 is still a better option.

[–] woelkchen 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

for the average user X11 is still a better option

The average user has Intel/AMD iGPUs and uses whatever is default which in fact is Wayland in case of Gnome and Steam Deck Game Mode.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Nope, steam deck is X11, just checked mine.

Yea, most people use the default, like I use Wayland on my desktop which is almost exclusively used for games so 99.9% of applications launch through xwayland. I'm saying Wayland doesn't have advantages over X11 for the average user and for anyone with an Nvidia GPU it is an active hindrance.

[–] woelkchen 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Nope, steam deck is X11, just checked mine.

Then you checked wrong and don't understand the difference between Game Mode and Desktop Mode.

for anyone with an Nvidia GPU it is an active hindrance.

You bought an expensive product with incomplete drivers. The hindrance is NVidia.

[–] orangeboats 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

On the other hand... if you are primarily gaming on your PC, then the moment Wine supports Wayland 90% of your programs will be Wayland-native.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

And that would be great if/when it happens but currently Wayland offers very little over X11 to the average user. Better multi monitor support is like the only thing.

[–] orangeboats 2 points 1 year ago

Theoretically an average user should feel nothing. The benefits of Wayland are usually more visible when more modern technologies are involved, for example VRR, high DPI, HDR, etc.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

manjaro switched to Wayland??!

i installed it a couple of years ago... should i search on how to switch it to Wayland?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

I would not bother, Wayland doesn't have many advantages, at least not from my point of view. I would honestly switch my install to X11 if I wasn't lazy.