this post was submitted on 13 Aug 2023
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You don't get defrauded, unless you willingly give someone your money. This is not a valid criticism of cryptocurrency.
Good, but PayPal has locked me out of my account multiple times. So I prefer to use cryptocurrency where that can't happen.
You go on (for example) https://localmonero.co and you buy it with your preferred payment method.
I was just giving you alternatives to mining. It's irrelevant how you got your cryptocurrency.
A distributed ledger is not a scam. The only way that a technology could be scam is if it didn't work as advertised, but it does. As I said it's not anything new and we know exactly how it works. I don't understand why you can't accept this. I don't care if people are trying to invest in it. Feel free to criticize their behavior, but that is not valid criticism of this technology. What people say about cryptocurrency is also irrelevant to this discussion.
Yes, but cash can't be used for online payments. Monero is the most private way to pay online.
This doesn't disprove the fact that Monero is the most private way to pay online and the article you linked doesn't disprove that either.
I might have been wrong there. I'm not sure how trust-less that is. But cryptocurrency is still a trust-less system.
https://web3isgoinggreat.com/?id=shibarium-bridge-failure
Someone keeps track of all of the widespread fraud, rug pulls, and generic bullshit around crypto and the losses are in the billions of dollars (if you count it at conversion rates, which I largely don’t actually… Because if everyone pulled their money at once there’s no way the conversion rates would hold).
That's very sad and proves that we need better education. There are scams in every area of life unfortunately. Most people are bad at understanding modern technology (including cryptocurrency), which makes things worse. I'm for exposing and punishing scammers, but blaming technology for this is not a solution.
I don't think people should invest in cryptocurrency at all, even when there isn't any scam going on. Unless maybe they are rich and can afford to lose money.
It's akin IMO to saying that guns are the root of the problem with gun violence in America to say that crypto is the root of the problem with crypto scams.
The type and frequency of these scams just isn't possible using any other technology.
I consider technologies generally to be advanced tooling, and with just about any other type of tool I think it's important to analyze what it's useful for and what it isn't useful for: what it enables, what it disables, what it makes possible, what it makes impossible, what it makes likely, what it makes unlikely, etc.
I think crypto is perfect tooling for scams, ponzis, money laundering, confidence schemes, ransomware, fraud, and the transfer of dark money.
It's not good tooling for quick payments between people (which are is more easily possible through paypal, venmo, etc.) and it is not particularly good for online payments for the type of goods most people purchase online either. It may be (as you say) one of the only semi-private ways to conduct online transactions, but I have not encountered anyone in my life who regularly required such a thing.
As you state, the understanding and adoption of new technology is already a hurdle for most people, and crypto adoption requires you to not only be good at technology, but also have a good understanding of finance and financial instruments. The number of people who are experts (or have even advanced knowledge) in both areas is infinitesimal, and that's a large part of the reason why scams run amok in this area, some even amongst those creating or deploying the technologies themselves. The overwhelming majority of people simply do not meaningfully understand either thing separately, and definitely don't fully understand the intersection of the two.
I'm pretty sure there are states with very little gun violence. But regardless, crypto is not the only technology where scams happen. Many scams happen through a phone, but it wouldn't make sense to blame phones for this. We could get rid of phones and even though I hate them, it would be a ridiculous solution even to me.
Maybe, but many scams don't require much use of technology. For example multi-level marketing is a pyramid scheme, which is completely legal in the US.
That's because of lack of regulation and education in our society, but I agree. I'm only not sure about money laundering. Most crypto exchanges require identification and have limits. So I'm not sure how much it helps the more serious criminals, who need to withdraw significant amounts of money.
Waiting 40 minutes for a payment to go through might not always be a big deal to people, but yeah faster and more convenient methods exist. Most people don't care about privacy, so they will just use the most convenient method. Just like they use WhatsApp for messaging.
You don't need to be good at finance to use cryptocurrency for payments. I certainly am not. Being good at technology helps of course, but I doubt that every cryptocurrency user is. There are tutorials for non-technical people. I think things like that should be taught at schools though. It would be harder to mislead people then.
A phone is a communication device...crypto isn't.
The answer here IMO is to ban MLMs, though it's worth pointing out that naked pyramid schemes are illegal in the US.
What society? The global society? Crypto isn't just scamming people here in the US, but in every place crypto is used.
A common method of money laundering is to sink money from ill-gotten gains into a volatile asset that can be said to either appreciate or depreciate in value to fuzz the numbers. Crypto is at least a reasonable tool for the job.
I think this is an easy thing to say about lots of things. But schools have enough trouble teaching kids to read in this country...which I think would be a prerequisite to figuring out whether the Internet weirdo you're transferring your PooCoin(TM) to is a real deal "PooHead" or a scammer looking to scam people.
Correct. It's a currency and payment method.
Crypto isn't scamming anyone. Scammers are doing it in multiple countries. I am not being scammed by using crypto.
Make sense. I think converting all of it to regular money might be difficult, but I'm not that familiar with how those criminals operate.
The first advice would be to not transfer your coin to anyone. Changing the education would certainly be difficult and there are many more important things that should be taught first. Like critical thinking, the ability to find and verify information, the scientific method. Technology is just another one of those things.
Sure, both of which are more straightforwardly useful tools for financial crimes than a phone is, and less generally useful for other purposes.
Crypto is so popular and useful for criming that ransomware is practically a first order use case for it.
Good for you? But many, many people are getting scammed...some directly through the technology itself.
Generally speaking in money laundering you're trying to take criminal money and convert it into taxable dollars. One mechanism for doing so is saying "oh hey, someone gave me some crypto and it went up in value and look at this huge payday I had". This is true in lots of legitimate cases of crypto use as well, so that's what a criminal would masquerade as...someone who had "won" the "crypto lottery".
I think money laundering is generally done via other means (vs say ransomware which is generally not), but it's a useful tool to have for a criminal upstart who may not have a brick and mortar way to launder their money.
I guess? Makes it pretty useless as a payment method then. My first advice would be to not exchange dollars you need for digital junk that may become worthless, stolen, or forgotten.
I guess phones are better for spying people.
Technology doesn't scam people, it's not alive. People get scammed in all areas of life, regardless of technology they use. It's ridiculous that I have to explain this again.
I doubt it, but it's irrelevant. Criminals use many things that ordinary people also use.
Not really. There is a difference between giving someone your money vs paying for a service. But you know this. It's silly that you keep saying things like that. It just makes you look stupid or dishonest. There are many real things you could criticize about cryptocurrency and I would agree with you on many of them. There is no need to make stuff up.
Right, only cryptocurrency could become worthless, stolen or forgotten. Paper junk can't.
"Crypto doesn't scam people, people scam people" 🙄. It's ridiculous that you have an inability or unwillingness to reasonably evaluate a tool and what its common and obvious uses are. Oh wait, you can do that with tools you don't like:
Depends upon how you're going to guarantee fulfillment of the service...which is a thing you can't really do without a mediating party....unless it's ugly ape art or a different form of shitcoin.
USD isn't only "paper junk", but I should've expected that as a crypto enthusiast you wouldn't understand actual currency.
I'm not sure that's always even true, but it's a lot easier to get defrauded when everyone you're transacting with is online people with a series of randomesque "hashes" tying them to a wallet...and more importantly...the fraud is often irreversible. I've had people steal my credit card multiple times and not paid a dime when it happened.
I haven't had this experience as a user...so I guess for doing whatever likely weird things you're doing Monero is best. ¯_(ツ)_/¯
That doesn't mean it's good for most, or even many people though.
I'm guessing they too use a payment gateway (often PayPal), and I have no idea who these people are and have no guarantee that they aren't going to defraud me or that they will keep my information private.
Nah, the whole ecosystem is though. There was an era where cryptocurrency felt somewhat less scammy, but it was also worth less (or worthless) during that time. A distributed ledger is just not that useful of a technology. Especially one that works the way blockchain works, that's why it's being used almost 100% for fake-o "currencies", NFTs, and ponzis.
Again, I don't have a need for this and like I've also said several times most people also do not. Hell, most people make online payments peer-to-peer using venmo with their transactional history set to fucking public. Just because you sit in some weirdo niche category doesn't mean that this is an overall useful thing for many or most.
EDIT: And actually now that I think of it, you could just buy a prepaid credit card using cash and buy shit online using that.