this post was submitted on 12 Aug 2023
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Have a look at this post, we had a similar discussion there: https://lemmy.world/post/3074361
Long story short, the platform still needs a bit of work before being able to really move communities. Some examples exist (lemdro.id, piracy, startrek) but those are tech savvy audiences, there would be a lot more friction with more generalist communities
I fully agree with you. And I want to emphasize that the main issue is that if you start advertising Lemmy like OP suggest before it's "fully ready" to give the best experience to this people, they will decide now that lemmy is not for them and after that it's very difficult to make they try again and change their mind.
Exactly the mistake threads just made, trying to capitalize on twitter's rate limiting fiasco. The "general public" is extremely fickle, and Reddit will give us more opportunities.
I don't know, I feel like the issue (at least part of it) with Threads wasn't that it needed more time in the oven, but that it was birthed pre-shitified. Remember the steps: good to the users, then good to the advertisers, then good to themselves. Threads basically tried to skip step 1. It felt every bit as manipulative as the Facebook feed, because it effectively was.
It didn't come through feeling like a breath of fresh air from Twitter in any way except (to your point) the lack of rate limiting. But even without that, the mindset and motivation behind Threads makes it dead on arrival. It has nothing to offer except being "not Twitter", and the cold, corporate hand is very evident. Turning off the rate limiting, Twitter got those users back.
The lesson there is you have to have something the entrenched platform doesn't if you want to keep the users. Lemmy is already ahead in that department simply by having 3rd party apps.
Should also keep in mind other alternatives have been very, very slowly spreading by word of mouth. None are viable yet (save maybe Tildes if the owner pulls the stick out of their ass), and none are as sizable as Lemmy, but there is competition out there and we should be wary of taking too long. As reddit gets worse, the smaller alternatives will see growth too, and if we don't keep promoting, they may overtake Lemmy as the "main" alternative.
In fact the other sites have the benefit of being centralized platforms. Yes, I said benefit. I know we don't see it that way but we're already here. We're not trying to sell Lemmy to ourselves, we're trying to sell it to redditors that are still on the platform. We have to accept that they're not looking for anything other than population, convenience, and reddit-equivilent features. A simple, centralized platform will look much more attractive to them than Lemmy if we let one catch up to us in size and content.
Server issues and quits need to be addressed, and mobile apps Ned to be polished. If the UX isn’t at least on par with Reddit, then it will only hurt to advertise now to the general public.
One thing that annoys me coming from Reddit is, that there isn’t just one group of each theme. You have for example gaming groups on several instances and you can either chose to subscribe to a number of those or chose the one you like.
But in the end, one will be the go-to group, and wouldn’t that centralize the most popular groups?
(Honest question, I’m new to Lemmy and the thoughts behind it)
instances are like countries with their own constitution (rules) and police (mods). This means that two communities in different instances may seem the same, but they are not, because they have to follow the rules and culture of their instance.
Just like a Technology club in Japan will not be the same as the Technology club in the US because they will be culturally different. I think it will take some time for the Fediverse to think this way.
For me, this is better. Instead of having one giant technology community where your comments and posts are drowned out, we can have different technology communities with their own culture and norms, just like we visit different countries. Your comment and posts will be not drowned out.
It is a different paradigm to the centralised one of Reddit.
Yep, if you're not from the US, instances are vastly superior.
Imagine all the times people from around the world asked for plumbing help on Reddit and got hit with "that ain't up to code, buddy, get to ass down to Howm Deeepo" 😂
Americans do tend to assume the internet revolves around them, as they're a bit insular and don't see that it really, really, really doesn't
A lot of that is social media/algorithmic too. It wasn’t until I start migrating to Lemmy (specifically lemm.ee) that I started seeing a lot of varied content.
Mirror for that lemmy.world post since they're currently down...
https://programming.dev/post/1625433
The fact that large instances hit more downtime than something like reddit will always be a detriment.
lemmy.world really needs to close signups and the creation of new communities, until they can improve their uptime
or they should at least be removed from https://join-lemmy.org/instances maybe it could track the uptime and use that to build the list?
but Reddit actually does go down pretty often too
They said themselves the issue isn't signups or server capacity, it's that they've been under multiple rounds of DDoS attacks.
Why are they being DDoS'd though? I thought it was because they're the biggest instance and thus shutting down still helps
Well, by that logic, if they shut down, the the next largest will be targeted, and then the next largest, etc. That's not a winning game for anyone involved...
Right but we'll be more decentralized so any such attack won't affect the threadiverse as much. Right now every time .world goes down the entire fediverse feels half dead because it's so large.
But if this happens 7 times and there's now 7 major instances, each will only take up like 10% of the total and attacking it won't affect much.
In that sense, getting more decentralized is basically a natural evolution of the big instances being attacked. I'm just trying to speed it up.
Yeah but why give new users a bad experience, you're just gonna drive them away from Lemmy and they never come back
Also we're overly centralized on them, we need to decentralize better, both users and communities
I mean, that could happen to any other Lemmy instance too, unfortunately. And even if you do decentralize, a server going down still deprives the rest of us of that content, so it's never not going to cause some issues. So I wouldn't hold this against Lemmy.world.
I don't hold it against them, it's just unfortunate that they've been having so much downtime recently, certainly more than most other good instances
Thanks!
Yeah, people say we should use small instances to keep things spread out but two of the ones I tried have major posting issues that stop comments working, We really need to stress test and big squish before we really push it to everyone, some of the issues I've seen have been fixed and on general it's very stable so I don't think it's got far to go
Which were those, out of curiosity?
Discuss.online and slrpnk both good communities but issues with syncing
Thanks!
Have had absolutely zero issues on slrpnk even after the big Reddit migrations.
I predict it will be the mobile apps that get us over that hump
Definitely. Sync and Boost will bring the largest users influx
45k users in a week with sync.
That's impressive
Infinity too.
Which is unfortunate imo. More mobile users means less effort and lower quality content
I do agree, however I would argue that an increased user base would help accelerate progress on improving lemmy
To be honest, people who are tech savvy and bug tolerant enough to be on Lemmy are probably already here. There were quite a few discussions about it (and still now on Reddit)
It also needs about 1000% less hostility when it comes to anything beyond superficial discussion. Basically every news thread just gets brigaded by idiots trolling with pictures of pig shit. I get it, internet is not serious business, but in terms of actual discourse at the moment, this place is worse than Facebook.
Wow, my experience is very opposite this. It sounds like you're describing reddit to me honestly. I've seen way less hostility here compared with Reddit
It depends on what content you consume I guess. On Reddit, news subs generally enforce decorum pretty strongly which really eliminates outright trolling. On lemmy there is the opposite of this in many places - lemmygrad and hexbear openly state that it is their goal to shit up threads to deny "shit libs" a platform, and the mods on several major instances seem to openly allow it.
So if you never consume that kind of content on either platform, you'd never notice the relative toxicity of lemmy.
Wait, do you any links to them admitting that? I believe you, but it's a good idea to have that saved.
https://sh.itjust.works/c/meanwhileongrad
I say this as someone who hates tankies just as much as the next dude, but that community isn't really productive nor helpful. If you seriously have an issue with lemmygrad there are many instances that have defederated from them (i think sh.itjust.works is?). A community like that does nothing but to bring drama within the lemmyverse. Yes, their views are at times abhorrent but you are just provoking a community that already has major issue with large portions of the lemmyverse. We really should leave that toxic drama stirring behind.
Didn't you just say "it's a good idea to have this stuff saved"
You just asked for evidence.
Mods AND Lemmy developers.
I don't see that either. People have disagreed with me politely and intelligently here which is just good conversation.
Yeah, I've run into this here. I posted a question to one of the posts asking why it was such a big deal, and all the sudden I'm a corporate defender. I don't think this is a reddit, lemmy, or anything issue, it's just internet and echo chambers. If you don't reply with a "OMG YES SO TRUE OMG" then you are a dissident.
Exactly, I feel the same as you. @meowoem in which community do you see that behavior?