this post was submitted on 05 Aug 2023
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[–] p1mrx 145 points 1 year ago (3 children)

chrome : chromium :: vscode : vscodium

That's a good pun. Clearly the authors have mastered the second hardest problem in computer science.

[–] [email protected] 45 points 1 year ago (1 children)

What makes that better is that VS Code is running on Electron, meaning it is running Chromium under the hood. Or at least part of it. Been a while since I read up on it so I can’t remember for certain.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago

Yes, you have it right.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

Codium is actually a species of seaweed. They use it on their logo which is really cool!

[–] uranibaba 5 points 1 year ago

Ah, that explains their logo. Always just looked at it and thought it was a bit weird.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago (4 children)

It's a bad comparison. Non-Google Chrome browsers (like Chromium) can still connect to Google's extension store to download browser extensions (like uBlock Origin). Only VS Code can connect to the VS Code Marketplace. Codium cannot. It's bullshit.

[–] tired_n_bored 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I am using VsCodium and I can install extensions. It's my default code editor and it has nothing less than my coworkers' MS Visual Studio Code.

Edit: just understood VsCodium uses a non-official marketplace for extensions, but for my needs I've always found everything

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

The problems are that VSIX binaries can't legally be redistributed and many of them aren't even open source in the first place. Many won't even work if you manually download them and add them to Codium. VS Code really doesn't deserve to be viewed as open source in any way shape or form and folks need to embrace the Open VSX market place and avoid Microsoft's like the plague.

You're lucky to have found all the extensions you need. That's not the norm.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It's like GitHub. A proprietary platform that's really popular for open source development for some reason, when there are actually open source alternatives available.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Nobody views GitHub as open source. Folks do believe that VS Code is open source but because the extension store can't be accessed by anything else (like an actual open source build of VS Code's codebase) it's an extremely dirty lie.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Also, VSIX extensions are full-on software packages. They contain binary executables that have access to both the inside of the editor and the rest of your system. If they didn't have access to your system there would be no way that they can hook into non-editor applications like your compiler or runtime debugger, or have the ability to pull files from outside the working directory. But they obviously can do all that, either usefully or maliciously.

This is specifically in response to the argument of "so what if VSIX extensions aren't open source? They're just extensions right?" No. They are applications. And they can individually contain just as much spyware and all the trappings of proprietary code as if you had used a fully proprietary editor.

[–] sunspider 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Its not a bad comparison. Sure, some details might differ, but the underlying concept of a build that only uses the open source code is the same.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

The reason it's a ad comparison is because it gives Microsoft way too much credit. Making an open source editor use a totally proprietary extension market and have proprietary extensions you can't redistribute and even having many of those extensions not work with Codium just because of strings that don't match is fucking bullshit. It's disgusting. It's totally deceitful. Especially because the way these light weight editor IDEs work all of the useful bits come from extensions, not the program itself.

More on the subject: https://www.eclipse.org/community/eclipse_newsletter/2020/march/1.php

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Damn, that seems to be flagrantly anti-competitive. Has Microsoft attempted to justify why they do that?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

I don't know but this is what Eclipse has said about Open VSX.

https://www.eclipse.org/community/eclipse_newsletter/2020/march/1.php

[–] uranibaba 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Codium can connect to the MS market, they don't do it by default because of unclear legalise. Edit: unclear, not clear

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

If by "unclear" you mean "crystal clear" then yeah, they don't do it because Microsoft specifically disallows it in the terms of service. https://cdn.vsassets.io/v/M190_20210811.1/_content/Microsoft-Visual-Studio-Marketplace-Terms-of-Use.pdf

The Marketplace enables you to access or purchase products or services which are designed to work with and extend the capabilities of Microsoft Visual Studio, Visual Studio for Mac, Visual Studio Code, GitHub Codespaces, Azure DevOps, Azure DevOps Server, and successor products and services (the “In-Scope Products and Services”) offered by us and GitHub, Inc. (“GitHub”).

...

In-Scope Products and Services. Your right to use any In-Scope Products and Services will be governed by the agreement under which you purchased such products or services, and will be subject to the payment of fees for such products or services, where applicable. Marketplace Offerings are intended for use only with In-Scope Products and Services and you may install and use Marketplace Offerings only with In-Scope Products and Services.

[–] uranibaba 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Unclear because both urls were uploaded to to github under open source license by a Microsoft developer, and then promptly removed. I can't find it now (could be removed, could be posted in an issue) but VSCodium have instructions on how to change to MS's marketplace.

Last I read, Microsoft hadn't replied on whether it was legal or not to use their makeplace, since it was uploaded under open source. Thus again, unclear.

Edit: https://github.com/microsoft/vscode/issues/31168 The issue where the license of the marketplace is discussed.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

How does that make you allowed to violate the terms of service for the VS marketplace? A URL pointing to it doesn't mean you suddenly are allowed to use it in a fork. The license just means you can copy that string of text. It doesn't give you permission to do anything with it.

[–] uranibaba 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Just skimmed the link, and from what I understand the legal document prohibiting use of their marketplace did not exist in 2017 (or I am wrong and it took 5 years for someone to dig it up from Terms of Use).

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

I think it's the latter.