this post was submitted on 31 Jul 2023
40 points (80.3% liked)
Atheist Memes
5578 readers
7 users here now
About
A community for the most based memes from atheists, agnostics, antitheists, and skeptics.
Rules
-
No Pro-Religious or Anti-Atheist Content.
-
No Unrelated Content. All posts must be memes related to the topic of atheism and/or religion.
-
No bigotry.
-
Attack ideas not people.
-
Spammers and trolls will be instantly banned no exceptions.
-
No False Reporting
-
NSFW posts must be marked as such.
Resources
International Suicide Hotlines
Non Religious Organizations
Freedom From Religion Foundation
Ex-theist Communities
Other Similar Communities
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Believers of any religion come in exactly two varieties: extremists and those who provide aid and cover for extremists. The nice old lady down the street doing a bake sale and donating the proceeds to her church is still supporting an institution that hides child molesters, robs the community of their time, money and critical thinking skills and advocates for harmful public policy that strips people of their rights. That last piece is supposed to be prohibited by 501(c)(3) rules in the US but I'm not holding my breath waiting to see those enforced.
The only wing of the government that enforces the separation of church and state is the IRS. If you can send them proof of political action or anything that violates 501(c)(3), the IRS will want that tax money SOOOO FAST.
The FFRF has been trying. I checked a few of the ones in the list and still see them listed as 501(c)(3) organizations so either there's stuff happening behind the scenes or their letter went straight to the circular file.
A little off topic but if you want to get (c) rather than (c), you can use a backslash before either or both the open or close parenthesis and it'll be skipped by the markdown parser. It should look like this in the editor: \(c), (c\) or \(c\).
I was more meaning on an individual church basis. If you can get pictures of your local church saying "vote Trump", then that specific church can lose their status. No church can survive it.
Can you find any examples of a church losing their 501(c)(3) designation or other tax exemptions due to violations of the Johnson amendment aside from the one back in 1992 ("Church at Pierce Creek", see also Branch Ministries v. Rossotti)? Revocation was in 1995 for their actions in 1992 and the decision was upheld in 2000 after the church made its appeals. I could be missing something but that's the only case I could dig up where the IRS has followed through.
From what I can tell, the IRS has very little interest in pursuing this sort of thing once the word "church" hits the paperwork. Would love to be proven wrong though.
I guess I misspoke and it depends on how you define "losing status". These churches have accountants who must recommend that they not break the law.
https://www.newsweek.com/pastor-greg-locke-claims-he-gave-tax-exempt-status-church-1709615
So there's no confusion on what I'm talking about, there are cases where churches have been telling members (wink/nudge optional) how to vote either in support or opposition to particular parties and candidates. The IRS has a guide to how their restrictions are intended to be applied so I'm not asking you to take my word for the interpretation. I'll refer you back to the list of churches that the FFRF submitted after this Texas Tribune article a few comments up for examples of violations of these rules. Hopefully that clarifies where I'm getting my definitions and why it seems to me that the IRS has not been active in their enforcement.
I am familiar with Greg Locke and the Global Vision Bible Church. We'll never know if the IRS would have taken corrective action if Locke hadn't apparently gone through the 501(c)(3) revocation process. He may have been attempting to get ahead of enforcement or it could have been the sort of headline-grabbing stunt he's known for. Whether or not some churches have accountants who provide advice on following the law, it is clear that there is still politicking going on in violation of the Johnson amendment. While the IRS has provided their guidance on the subject, there is little evidence to suggest that they're willing to do more than that aside from a single case with a single church 28 years ago.
I will not be attending churches in my area to verify that they aren't breaking the rules since I am not interested in their message and, even if they were and if it was reported, I do not believe that the IRS would do anything about it. We might just end up disagreeing on how these issues play out but in my opinion, your statements that "no church can survive it" and "...the IRS will want that tax money SOOOO FAST" (i.e. the IRS would follow up with enforcement actions, please correct me if that is not what you meant) do not hold water.
go talk to her. Ask her why she is doing what she does. Communicate with that nice old lady instead of writing in an atheist bubble of an online community.
Just because I do one doesn't mean I can't do the other.