this post was submitted on 29 Jul 2023
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Communism doesn't include a hierarchy of power enforced by violence. The two concepts are antithetical. The USSR was somewhere between capitalism and fascism.
How do you prevent people from trading and owning property without violence?
Education. The reason that fascists are raising hell about wokeness is that Capitalism depends on ignorance.
Ok, can you "educate" me why I need to get rid of my private property?
And fascists practiced economic policies of "corporatism", not capitalism
You don't have private property. You have personal property. https://allthedifferences.com/personal-vs-private-property-whats-the-difference/
Fascism and corporatism is just end stage capitalism. Every time capitalism fails it is bailed out by socialism or it devolves into genocide.
If I understand it correctly my laptop and 3d printer, are private property since I can make money with those...
No you can't. You have to create a legal entity before you're allowed to make money.
I'm not sure if thats required here, but it's totally possible without asking for government permission
Edit: i might be wrong here because of "legal speak" language barrier, but if I understand correctly you can make money from your business as a regular person just fine (legally). There's just a limit on how much you can earn before needing yo register as a business
You can make exactly $600 per year off your personal property before you run afoul of tax laws in the USA.
Thats sad(
There its ~25k$ IIRC. (Although doesn't count net profit, just all money you recive)
But there's huge gray market here, and I'm sure US has it too
Tax evasion is like pornography. Everybody takes part in it, but you're never supposed to get caught. Walking that tightrope perfectly will lead you straight to the White House.
I guess US just sucks if you want some independence in your life...
But back to my original point, without a state and violence what would stop me from owning that property and making money/accumulateing capital with it? (Although I personally think that just trade is free market and not capitalism, but I'm not sure about your view on this)
Also as a fun anecdote: our government used taxpayers money to put ads asking people to "get out of gray" and pay taxes 🤣 That's how big gray market here
There's nothing to stop you, which is why communities grow into hierarchies. Those hierarchies eventually destroy communities and start using scapegoats to excuse their own corruption and failure. As long as people accept these lies, the scapegoating turns into genocide. There is an alternate ending though, and that's for enough people to become aware of societal injustice to establish a community that's larger than the hierarchies, and force reallocation of resources to create an egalitarian society. That's why conservatives, all of whom are invested in the scapegoating tactics, are anti-woke.
I guess that makes sense. Although usually when it comes to achieving such grand goals through education, people might reject some parts of the teaching. Which might result in blaming this "irrationality" on some group, which would be later genocided.
Not saying that will happen just saying that we have to keep it in mind and act more like Makhno for example. He was ready to accept democratic vote even if people decided to go back to imperialism.
I wonder how much different today's world would be if they weren't crushed by soviets...
I feel like these conversations also fight the ideas of the inherent impurity of the systems. Capitalism on its own just doesn't exist because its beneficial for govt to collect from the masses and provide some degree of common good such as infrastructure.
On the flip are the communists who believe they can completely throw out all of the ideas of capitalism and competition. It gets hard to even make the point of the "market place of ideas" where people are competing within a controlled system for things like the prestige of the best idea that outcompetes the rest. There have to be drivers for action and money is simply the easiest carrot.
Very convenient, since nothing will ever meet this standard, so you will be able to say "that's not communism" for the rest of your life. Actually sounds like the definition on anarcho capitalism
Maybe to you, but many of the people in power at the time believed they were on the way to communism
I know of two common definitions of capitalism: "a system mostly organized around a profit-motive" and "a system in which individuals are mostly free to enter into consensual contracts". I don't see how the USSR is close to either of these. It was closer to fascism, tho there are also large differences
"Nothing will ever meet this standard" ~CHINESEBOTTROLL
If CHINESEBOTTROLL says it, then it must be true.
The two concepts are antithetical, even if the ignorant and corrupt claim it for themselves. Modern Christianity is antithetical to the Gospels of Christ, and that remains the case even as America slides into Christofascism. Fascists have always been steeped in irony because their core beliefs are based in the ignorance of ego.
You having an ignorant concept of capitalism doesn't have any bearing on reality, except that it causes you to ignore the atrocities of the system that keeps you fat and happy.
You misunderstand. That is not capitalism but CRONY-capitalism. The two concepts are anrithetical. In REAL capitalism everyone respects the non-agression principle and therefore everyone is free. Crony capitalism is actually the LEAST capitalist system and is closer to socialism, because the government does stuff. I am very smart
I didn't say that communism hasn't happened. It happens everywhere there's more than one person present, until it is stopped by a fascist who starts building a hierarchy, demanding that one person be in control and set the agenda. Fear is the fertile ground in which ignorance blossoms. The reason that all governments are based in fascism is because they all ultimately believe in their own authority to enact violence on individuals. When the ignorance INEVITABLY collapses into violence, communism rises from the ashes in the form of mutual aide, community, schools, and basic infrastructure.
This made me realize that you are not worth my time. I hope you have a nice life!
Everyone knows it's the most intelligent person in the room who has to remind you he's intelligent. At least you won't bite your tongue as you eat every meal through a tube.
Lol sarcasm bait.
Sarcasm
Are there police in an ideal communist state?
No. Everyone is charged with public safety. It's inconceivable from a capitalist dystopia, but when problems like poverty, social isolation, food insecurity, and discriminatory practices are addressed early, crime is less of an issue. Capitalism needs police because addressing the issues I mentioned means flattening the hierarchy. The goal is to abolish wealth as well as poverty in an egalitarian society.