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Italy calls for 'immediate' summit between US, Europe following Zelensky-Trump clash
(kyivindependent.com)
this post was submitted on 01 Mar 2025
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No, I think they had ideas. In Italy at least the ideological pillars were quite clear and are the same as they were 100 years ago. Support to industrial class (capital) was a constant and still is. Militarism, religion in politics, nationalism, racial discrimination, anticommunism etc. also. In general I agree that fascism is not an ideology as much as a way to conduct politics. But Italian fascists did not evolve or change in the last century. Maybe we can discuss how nationalism became atlantism (because anticommunism prevailed), but apart from that, I see quite a lot of stability in those ideas.
None of these things were a mussolini constant
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avanti!_(newspaper)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sword_of_Islam_(Mussolini)
I am aware of my own country's history. Socialist roots of Mussolini contributed to the ideological foundation of fascism, and some of these roots are somewhat visible and remained until today in neofascist parties. For example, looking at how Forza Nuova and Casapound have deep roots in more proletarian suburbs and operated things like food delivery to poor people (only Italians, of course). The appeal to lower class while ultimately making the interests of capital is one of the reasons fascism is a hard disease to get rid of in Italy.
Not sure what you meant with the second link. The chapter of mixing religion and state is a very long discussion, and the racial discrimination is so obvious that I won't even try to argue it (from colonialism, to folks songs like "faccetta nera", to the practice of madamato).
In any case, the fascist tradition in Italy has been stable. Meloni is from Almirante's school, for example, and honestly I would be hard pressed to find substantial differences in core pillars of Almirante's party and Fratelli d'Italia.
Do you have any concrete example perhaps of areas in which fascist parties in Italy changed positions substantially over the years?
They always do like they are doing it right now
So "no".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giorgia_Meloni
"Prior to the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine, she was in favour of better relations with Russia and supported lifting sanctions on the Russian Federation in 2014. In 2018, she congratulated Vladimir Putin for his re-election as president. In 2021, she wrote that Russia under Putin defends European values and Christian identity."
Do your own research
A specific alliance is not an ideological change. She was allied of Russia until that was functional to pushing her own values (racism, anti-lgbtq, anti-muslim, christianity etc.), and didn't conflict with atlantism. Now that it does, things changed. If anything this is an argument in favour of my thesis.
You are talking about research as if this was not known to anybody. You need to explain how this change in relationship with Russia is an ideological change. She also changed coalitions and historically she changed relationship with Lega and before that with Forza Italia. That doesn't prove that her ideology changed.
Again, give a concrete example.
Edit: some examples in case you think I am asking an impossible task:
FDI instead is exactly the inheritance of MSI, following the same politics. Meloni herself considered Almirante the father of the right wing. That's the core. And presenting it as opportunistic is underestimating it. Salvini is opportunistic. He is a fascist when is useful, he is a politics whore, will change in a blink of an eye. Meloni is not. She has her shitty ideas since she was a teenager militant, and those will stay the same.
Sure, depending on what is happening she might be anti-EU or more filo-EU, but that's because those positions (like in the case of Russia) are subordinated to the core values of her (party).
This person got elected campaigning against EU and is now captaining a EU summit. They campaigned against surrogacy and electric cars and are in bed with elon musk contracting him military infrastructures.
The current government is a coalition between meloni, salvini and berlusconi party.
And that's what I said. Completely expected. And her position about EU will change again depending on what happens in Europe. Right now she is still trying to reconcile EU and US.
That's also what I said. Government coalitions, especially in Italy, are not expressive of any particular ideology. Also not Berlusconi's party anymore, thankfully, since he is feeding worms.
What I want to say is that Meloni has some core values. These values are essentially the same that were for MSI, and those were the same that were for the PNF. Other positions are subordinated to those values, which means that her position about Europe, but also her atlantism change over time, depending on what serves best those core values. Atlantism for example sounds extremely contradictory for a nationalist party which, during fascism, preached autarchy. So, did they change? No, not really. Atlantism is essentially a byproduct of anticommunism since the cold war era. Likewise, EU position change depending if that is more functional to push nationalism (I.e., Netherlands and Germany want to strangle Italy - nationalism) or other stuff.
The biggest difference is that people like Salvini were born politically as communists, joined the Lega Nord preaching independence of Padania within a party that literally wiped their ass with Italian flag, then moved to become nationalist populistic party once he took the lead. What are Salvini's core political values? None. Meloni is a much more serious politician, which makes her much more dangerous, because she does have an ideology, and she does what is functional to push that ideology. Saying that fascists don't have ideas is - IMHO - straight up dangerous, because it gives the idea that they are not serious about what they do, and if the wind changes, they will also change. Meloni so far didn't change since she had a party with 3-4% and played Berlusconi's crutch until now.
I agree with meloni coming from a worst background but that background held no real core values too. What ideologies the mafia has? If needed they would even resort to kill children like they have done many times. What i'm trying to highlight to you is that scum simply doesn't play by the rules. If tomorrow international press were to start shitting on the church this person would do a 360 and change their views like mussolini did with lateran treaty
And that's where I disagree. Playing by the rules has nothing to do with not having values. MSI had ideology, their founders came directly from RSI and never renegaded the fascist regime, and Fini - who "evolved" the right wing - is seen as a traitor by those in Almirante's school because he did renegade fascism (at least, formally). Meloni's party could have turned populist and pursue more favorable positions, and instead she stuck with her shitty ideas despite having minimal consensus early on.
I don't think so at all. It's a speculation of course. Which to me makes it worse, because the idea of Christianity she has (conservative, strict gender roles, strong "moral" values, etc.) survives the relationship with the church itself, even if this one should evolve (unlikely). Take for example abortion. Abortion has wide support among Italian population. Despite this, she still sticks with her reactionary position, because this is descending from those core values. Look instead Salvini's relationship with religion to see what an ideological whore looks like...
By the way, you are talking about Mussolini's evolution, but that was before he founded fascism, and anyway his Later treaties were a perfect political instrument to gain power. Deschner in "Kriminalgeschichte des Christentums" (Criminal history of Christianity) covers the whole timeline quite in depth, and if it was not for the church support he wouldn't have managed to pass the "leggi fascistissime" (including the electoral reform) which ultimately lead him to take full power, via the alienation of Sturzo.
So once again, Mussolini's relationship with the church is debatable and mostly functional to him pursuing his power grab. For sure there are strong overlaps with traditional christian morality and fascism, but I see these as more part of the strategy to form a strong identity around which to build nationalism.
Fascists fought WWII against the allies and lost to them, these people siding with USA make them sound like the perfect renegates.
They scream shit all day and then do the opposite, you know they would do it.
I already mentioned why atlantism is a position ad a result of anticommunism. We are going in cirlces I guess.