this post was submitted on 23 Feb 2025
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What are the typical beliefs of the Christian Democratic Union (CDU) / Christian Social Union (CSU)?
You can find their agenda for this election on their website.
Social market capitalism is a core tenet. That means free enterprise and corporation friendly policies, while also taking care of the unemployed, health insurance, and so on. Traditional family values and German national identity are important. Anti drug, but pro choice. Strict on crime and public order. Belief in meritocracy, compromise, and pragmatism. Sceptical regarding immigration. Pro EU, pro NATO, pro USA.
Similar to a center right democrat in the US, except with more conservative ideas regarding immigration and multiculturalism.
Ironically, independence from the US:
https://www.dw.com/en/german-election-friedrich-merz-urges-independence-from-us/live-71700729
I'm not German and don't have any special insight into German politics, but until someone that knows better comes along I can at least offer that it's Angela Merkel's old party. Unless something has shifted drastically, it's the Germany we've known for most of the past twenty years
Something has shifted quite dramatically. Under Merz, the C*U has shifted to the right, almost copying the extreme right AfD's program in certain points, became very populist. A standstill like during the Merkel years could be a best case scenario atm.
No, the CDU didn't shift, they put someone from a different wing in the top position. I guess the long and short of it that neither Günther or Wüst were interested in a show-off with Merz who had bees up his arse ever after Merkel quit, given that she previously ousted him from the candidacy position. They're both perfectly comfortable ruling their respective states, why bother, if Merz goes too far for their liking they're still in a position to but brakes on that.
Like, the CDU polls at around 40% in SH state elections, while the federal result is 27.6%. Everyone knows the CDU left wing has more pull than the right, they're letting Merz be Merz.
Yes, they did shift. Their program is far more right-wing than a few years ago, the rhetorics, their propositions, are far closer to the AfD than even under Laschet.
Who is "they", here. Point out people who have shifted.
The CDU as a party, as it states their goals inntheir program, the politicians their base elects as their leaders and speakers and the rhetorics that are popular.
I addressed that, there's a reason I posted poll numbers and compared them to election results. Merz has nothing on Günther when it comes to pulling votes, if he (or Wüst) had ran for Merz' office they'd very likely have won. And they would have run, had Merz been Gauland, or one of the Werteunion guys.
Noone wanted to oppose Merz because he's not too far right to be intolerable, also, it's his turn. The CDU's right and left wing have co-existed since the end of the war nothing about this is new and there's whole states to keep Merz in check. We're getting a bit of controlled CSU at the federal level.
Also the migration debate is all but guaranteed to vanish as soon as people start talking about getting nukes.
Dude the policies the CDU argues and proposes for are more right wing than under Merkel and Laschet. I don't care how well the left and right wing of the party work together or who has higher popularity rates, the difference between Willkommenskultur and Ehe für Alle on one side and "refugees take the germans' dentist appointments", anti-woke rhetorics, trying to raise majorities with the AfD or the Bezahlkarte on the other hand are stark contrast and an actual shift to the right!
You're listening to what politicians say? On top of that what they say on the campaign trail?
Yes. I listen what they've been saying for years in talk shows I also read up on law propositions and voting behavior. I see their proposed policies, how they argue them, what gets implemented in state governments. Maybe you should, too.
As you were talking about Bezahlkarte: Implementing law that was passed by the traffic light coalition? In SH the FDP accused Black-Green to be delaying implementation. Regarding cash the SH implementation follows the majority of states (max 50 Euro), you can pay online, it's valid throughout the state as well as in Hamburg though that'll require Hamburg to reciprocate. Hamburg is generally more restrictive with the thing and may I remind you they have an SPD government.
The thing, as in giving out a card instead of cash, will definitely stick around because yes it makes paying out money way easier for the administration. Whether the restrictions will stay I don't know but please stop fucking talking about "The CDU shifting right" when it's to the left of the SPD over here, at least in this regard. There's still no rebate on the Deutschlandticket for welfare recipients, just for state employees.
Schleswig-Holstein is in general more progressive-leaning than other states.
And I am not saying other parties didn't also shift to the right, SPD and Greens certainly did do the shift, too. But in total, especially on the federal level which is the important level with the given context of the Bundestagswahl the CDU has shifted to the right as we can see in the change of their policies, rhetorics and elected leaders when compared to the Merkel era.
Sure they adjusted their rhetoric under the assumption that they can siphon off AfD voters. There's a huge difference between "we'll try and win votes with this" and an actual shift in the party, though. The Greens agreeing to intervene in Yugoslavia was a shift, and you saw the internal struggle. The Greens being hawkish about Ukraine, wanting more money for the military etc was not a shift, to quote I think Hofreiter "We didn't change, the circumstances did". It's important to tell those things apart and when it comes to the CDU, we're talking about the latter kind of "shift".
And they're also smart enough to look at election results and must, by now, have finally realised that "the CDU is too left wing" is not why the AfD surged. And they also know that over 80% of their voters consider a coalition with the AfD intolerable.
So, trying to push through Merz' 5-Points-Plan with the help of AfD is just an adjustment of rhetorics? Electing Populists as their leaders and speakers?
You're defense of the CDU is bonkers, and I understand your arguments less and less.
You know what did shift without the circumstances shifting? The Greens' attitude towards deportations.
Honestly, I don't know how you cannot see the developments in the public discourse over the last couple of years as a shift to the right, from media landscape through parties. Are you blind? Or do you just not understand how that shit works and how a change in rhetorics and policies is carried by the party's base when that base elects their leaders and speakers.
I'm not defending the CDU, I'm explaining it. That you cannot spot that difference leads me to believe that talking to you is completely pointless because you have literally zero expertise in analysing politics.
No. The Greens never said "if law and courts say someone's gotta go then they can stay", and they're not saying anything different now, either.
Is not what's actually shifting things. You're looking at surface waves like fucking Lanz talks while missing the underlying currents.
Ahaha, okay.
Sure.
I have no need or desire to be insulted.
Have a nice day.
I'm sure they're just "letting" the right wing take control as the world descends into fascism and "centrists" ally with fascists all over.
True, but Merz is far More right than Merkel was, especially, when speaking of women and immigrants.
Also Merkel got a lot more percent oft the public vote (that counts here - wie do not habe the winner takes it all). Merz got the second worst result of his Party in history and will need to make a coalition with maybe even 2 other parties.
Merz re-iterating the "no AfD coalition" statement has reassured me somewhat. If they need two other parties that's probably even better, because it doesn't seem like any of the other major players would tolerate being in an AfD coalition
He can ban the fucking Nazis for being Nazis if he wants to reassure people.
They are as Christian as the Evangelical Right in the USA.