Programming

17978 readers

426 users here now

Welcome to the main community in programming.dev! Feel free to post anything relating to programming here!

Cross posting is strongly encouraged in the instance. If you feel your post or another person's post makes sense in another community cross post into it.

Hope you enjoy the instance!

Rules

Follow the programming.dev instance rules
Keep content related to programming in some way
If you're posting long videos try to add in some form of tldr for those who don't want to watch videos

Wormhole

Follow the wormhole through a path of communities [email protected]

founded 2 years ago

MODERATORS

[email protected]

Contempt Culture (blog.aurynn.com)

submitted 1 day ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

16 comments fedilink hide all child comments

So when I started programming in 2001, it was du jour in the communities I participated in to be highly critical of other languages. Other languages sucked, the people using them were losers or stupid, if they would just use a real language, such as the one we used, everything would just be better.

Right?

This sort of culturally-encoded language was really prevalent around condemning PHP and Java. Developers in these languages were actively referred to as less competent than developers in the other, more blessed languages.

And at the time, as a new developer, I internalised this pretty heavily. The language I was in was blessed, obviously, not because I was using it but because it was better designed than a language like PHP, less wordy and annoying than Java, more flexible than many other options.

It didn’t matter that it was (and remains) difficult to read, it was that we were better for using it.

I repeated this pattern for a really long time, and as I learned new languages and patterns I’d repeat the same behaviour in those new environments. I was almost certainly not that fun to be around, a microcosm of the broader unpleasantness in tech.

At least, until I got called on it.

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 day ago

Other self-taught narratives, such as starting with Wordpress-based design backgrounds and moving from more simple themes to more complex themes where PHP knowledge is required, to plugin development is a completely valid narrative, but a path that is predominately for women.

Where the heck did that come from? What does any of this have to do with women? Are most Java and PHP developers women?

The argument the author is trying to make is hinged upon this argument that comes out of nowhere. The rest of the article makes some good points but has more of these deviations that just break the flow and make me say "what does that have to do with anything?".

My problem with PHP is the language and the ecosystem. I'm genuinely impressed that people are able to build useful things with it, but the language is, at least to me, far from easy. Starting with array not being an array but a hashmap/dictionary, to complete clusterfuck that many projects are in terms of setting up and tooling. Only C and C++ projects can beat that (or so I have experienced). There is just an assumption that whoever's picking up a PHP project knows LAMP and its components, has root access, and won't be using a debugger.

The PHP debugger has been one of the most frustrating debuggers I've ever had the displeasure of trying to setup. You have to know how to configure php itself, which extensions to install, how to configure those, and how to setup whatever editor or IDE you have to interact with the debugger. Most PHP projects I'm come across haven't set it up and I can understand why.

Also, to use PHP sensibly, you have to learn about zend or whatever the name of that big framework is. But that can break in the most mysterious ways and for PHP beginners it can be a nightmare to understand what went wrong. Add in that its favorite pattern is dependency injection and the language isn't typed and understanding code is downright awful.

One of my bigger gripes is that many projects do not use containers whatsoever. It's either LAMP on your machine or good luck getting that thing to run. If you're new to PHP, well fuck you, you should've known PHP before trying to contribute to the project - that's what it feels like. There are often C/C++ like guides for setting up. first "sudo apt-get install some stuff here", oh wait, you don't use debian? Fuck off chump.

I have sworn off touching PHP projects ever again. The experience has left me scarred.

Anti Commercial-AI license