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At least we don't have Genocide Joe! (/s in case I actually need to write that)
So what's your point?
Was this election so unimportant to the Democrats that they couldn't pressure Israel into a ceasefire in October?
Biden had all the power for the past 15 months. Failing to deliver anything and claiming they are "working tirelessly" can only mean incompetence or deception on the part of Democrats.
Blaming Palestinian-Americsns for staying home when American bombs were killing their families is just such a weak take.
Yea! We just had to teach bLueMagA a lesson at the polls this particular election cycle
Well the last elections had Bernie, so effort was spent on that option for change instead.
Funny how a decent choice of candidate can be the difference between promoting said candidate and promoting not voting at all. Almost like representation matters.
It’s analogous to sanctioning Pvt. Ivan McBlyat but leaving Putin untouched.
You fucked up, regardless of what you tell yourself now
This might come off as funny if it weren't for the fact that "genocide Joe" is entirely fair.
After literal decades of trying to convince the Democratic establishment that being marginally better than the fascists isn't "good enough", I don't personally have much tolerance for scolding voters. Maybe this election could have been won, but the eventual outcome was inevitable. Neoliberalism is woefully incapable of restraining fascism.
"marginally better?" Really? Guess when you're just that far out everything on the horizon looks similar.
Yeah! So we should vote in fascism! And then actively rip apart the non fascists…. That will definitely create a great new liberal party right? So what’s the plan after the fascists take over?…… there is a great next step that will make the 4d chess move of electing the fascists make sense….tight?
Is that what I said? Anyone who voted for Trump did something they "shouldn't". Anyone who stayed home did something they shouldn't. Israel shouldn't have done a genocide. Biden shouldn't have supported Israel in committing a genocide. Yeah!?
I'm just adding that Democratic voters shouldn't have nominated Biden in 2020. Fascist victory became inevitable because of that mistake. The particulars of losing this election are almost irrelevant. If it wasn't Trump, it would be someone else. If it wasn't 2024, then it would be 2028.
The Democratic strategy of being marginally less shitty than Republicans is predicated on the assumption that voters will consistently make the most rational decisions in all circumstances. That was a dumb assumption and one that should die with this election. It's not good enough to be marginally less enthusiastic about supporting a genocide.
Okay here's the thing: Y'all need to either found a progressive third party or coopt the Democratic party. I don't care which, but pick one, stick to it and actually make progress on it. The current dichotomy between neoliberals and fascists was always going to end with fascists winning. It's simple math, really; if a Democrat in charge gets you X (could be 0, but let's face it it's some small but positive number) steps towards fascism and a Republican in charge gets you Y (>X) steps towards fascism then no matter how you look at it your only possible end state is fascism. To steer yourselves out of the fascism course you need to switch up the values such that on average you move away from fascism every election, and that ain't happening with the current DNC leadership in charge. I don't have the answer on how to overthrow neoliberals (though I do have my guesses) but y'all are driving full speed ahead towards fascism land and the "let's decelerate a bit" party won't change that.
It has to be a takeover of the Democratic party. Third party strategies are non-starters in a first past the post election system.
I think your assessment is 100% correct.
While a third party would have a long way to go (possibly never) before it can run for the presidency, I seriously think it's possible to overthrow the two main parties in at least a few states and secure a foothold in Congress, like Bernie did but on a larger scale. Let's also not forget the impact of state and local politics. The spoiler effect definitely complicates things, but I don't think it's any more of a problem than the fossils running the DNC.
With many thousands of state and local elections across the country, I do agree that there have to be niche circumstances where a third party strategy works, or might even be best. Even so, I just don't see that as something that can be built on to ever start winning at a national level.
Even in the case of Bernie, he runs on an "independent" brand, but it's understood that he is a Democrat.
Imho this is not really 4d chess. Its boring old simple 2d chess. Hitler would not have been able to come to power in a country filled with lots of super radical lefty people. The longer you allow Nazis to "peacefully" shift the overton window to the right, the easier it will be for them to eventually grab power. The only solution to this is open political / civil war. If you keep sitting around just voting for the lesser evil, it will keep shifting to the right because the frog doesnt notice the water getting hot. Democrats have been stagnant in their political position for decades while republicans have been constantly moving further right. This was inevitable and the sooner the US gets this over with, the more likely the chances are of them not turning into a full dictatorship because there are still people left that are willing to resist.
Just lazy
Too lazy to assemble a complete thought so someone might know what the fuck you're talking about?
The idea that Israel’s annexation of Gaza, the West Bank, and beyond is inevitable under any U.S. president ignores how deeply American policy shapes these outcomes. Empires do not expand in isolation because they rely on enablers to fuel their ambitions. Trump gave Israel everything it needed to push expansion forward by recognizing contested territories and legitimizing land grabs. Other administrations, while imperfect, at least made some effort to slow the process. American support through military aid, diplomatic shielding, and economic backing is not guaranteed and can shift with leadership and public pressure. History proves that empires can be stopped when expansion becomes too costly. Calling annexation inevitable is a lazy shrug at injustice, not a serious analysis of power and its limits.
The inevitable outcome I was referring to was the rise of fascism, and it became inevitable the moment we didn't take the historic opportunity to overthrow neoliberal control of the Democratic party. That was the window to a better world, and we missed it. A Bernie presidency would never have bowed to Israel and genocide.
Window was a few months ago when you had a chance to reject it, put Don through the courts and spend the next few years thoroughly embarassing them (it's the only thing they understand), with the republican party being destroyed.
Without that opposition, actual leftist voices could fill the vaccum.
But no now we need to do it the hard way.
There is no doing it the hard way. That's an adolescent fantasy. The wealthy will just coop any such movement to gain even more control.
Winning has to start with massive reform of American culture, and the wealthy have just consolidated control over social media, making it even harder to reach people. The one thing we have going for us is that the US seems to finally understand that the system is broken.
The goal is to build counter economic frameworks and mutual aid networks and cooperatives to usher in an evolution of society outwith government control.
Lot harder to build when you let the guy in who says he wants to execute leftists and anarchists, suggested shooting protestors, etc. so yeh this is the hard way.
Biden was a hardcore Zionist. He publicly proclaimed himself as such. He made a speech in congress, that if there was no Israel the US would need to create one, in order to further their interests. Being a violent empire that wants to ethnically cleanse and eradicate the Palestinians was always a part of Democratic policies. Any action against Israel was token at best and only enacted after significant public outcry about yet another wave of brutal Israeli crimes.
The only difference between the parties was in how fast and open it should happen. The sanctions imposed on settler groups were meaningless and laughable as the US gave guns to the Israeli government, which then handed them right to the sanctioned settler groups. They were laughable as often the settler groups are made up in part of active duty IDF soldiers and often the IDF had to report to these settler groups.
All these things are known, in particular to the US.
The reality is that the majority and leaders of the Democratic party want the annihilation of the Palestinians just as much as their counterparts in the Republicans. They just dont want their children to ask them, why they saw little children burned alive on social media and why mommy and daddy support this.
The only difference? Yeah? Democrats would have overturned roe? Liberals would be deporting people en mass? Kamala would be trying to overtime birthright citizenship? Democratic leaders world be promoting a non-democratic oligarch?
No doubt. So have most previous presidents.
The difference is the speed exactly as you mentioned, and the removal of any concerns that they need to placate global pushback. They’ll achieve in the next four years what would’ve taken them decades without a fascist at the helm.
So now that the cat is out of the box, other countries might decide to finally oppose the US and its conduct. Also now the people who claim to be progressive might realize that they have to oppose it as it is principally wrong and it cannot be seperated from the other issues, the same way the oligarchy is intrinsic to both sides of the US political theatre. Otherwise the outcome is the same for the Palestinians and the working class Americans.
Don't think so, think this will just result in the complete erasure of Palestine with no reprecussions.
Can't really oppose the US, at least not in any meaningful way.
We thought Assad was to stay in Syria and most countries were looking to reestablish/normalize ties. A month later he was gone.
It always feels impossible until the regime falls. But all power structures are fundamentally based on no relevant number of people challenging them. And the US always needs to feel it is worth to support Israel. Once that changes and the US drops Israel, it will fall apart in weeks, if it didn't fall apart until then from its internal rot.
The US is hardly unique in this. Every nation has a closet full of skeletons, and there is a lot of evil happening in the world today that isn't the fault of the US.
I like how there was an issue and so many idiots leaned into it.
That's just human nature. If Democrats can't take that into account in their campaign plans, then they deserve to lose. If Democratic voters keep nominating uninspiring milquetoast neoliberals, then we deserve to lose too.
This outcome belongs to anyone who voted to nominate Biden in 2020, just as much as it belongs to anyone who didn't show up in 2024. The first outcome was always going to lead to the second. It was totally predictable (and predicted).
At least centrists didn't have to abandon their support for genocide.
Leftists have full on embraced it.
Don't misrepresent people's views. If they're wrong, you should easily be able to win the argument against even the best interpretation of their stance.
I'm not misrepresenting anything.
I'm not arguing with someone who does.
The person you’re arguing with doesn’t. So apt statement.
Same shit if you’re Palestinian eh?
But hey glad to know you can live with supporting genocide abroad as long as you’re not bothered at home.
... they said while supporting more genocide