Apparently "nationalism is bad" is an uncivil take. Unless there's another reason someone would ban this comment... 🤔
this post was submitted on 16 Jan 2025
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MeanwhileOnGrad
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My extended family is German and British. I am well aware how the gypsies are thought of by many over there.
I have lost track of how many times I have brought up gypsies when they are taking about how racist Americans are and then suddenly "it's different". They literally don't even look at it the same way. That's some wild shit.
I think it is different in some way. I can't speak for Britain or Germany, but in Italy the situation with Romani, Sinthi or Caminanti (the three ethnicities of "Gypsies", not sure how they translate to English) is a mix of political failure, policy issue, integration gone wrong and finally racism. The thing is, the majority of people of those ethnicities live and work in society, and you wouldn't be able to point out someone being a sinthi, unless they would tell you. Most of these people don't get any hate, and they wouldn't in most cases even if people would know. However the "visibile" part of this population is the minority that lives in "camps" (policy failure), is generally a completely separate community and lives a completely different lifestyle including begging and petty crimes. These are the ones that get alla the hatred, and not even in all cases, there are success stories here too. Many people consider them subhuman, and this is racism 100%. Some people hate what they do (I.e. what they think they do based on some true fact, lots of stereotypes and collective attribution), but race has not much to do with it. There is a racist component in extending stereotypes to all the community, of individual crimes to the community, of course.
The problem is also quite hard to fix, because many of them (again, of those living in camps) are country-less after Yugoslavia dissolved, they don't speak the language and they have super low scholarisation. Nobody wants to invest resources, so these people live as they can, which reinforces the stereotypes etc.
Anyway, my point is that most people have or would have absolutely no problem with gypsies that they meet in regular contexts. Most people though simply don't even know they exist outside the camps. This makes it a very weird form of racism, that also varies across Europe. For example my mom lived in Portugal in a community where gypsies were integrated in some way (going around with horses and stuff!) and she was friends with them. Completely different from the ones in our area in Italy.
You mean, the Roma who live in "camps" in Italy were formally Yugoslavian citizens?
Yes, some of them were. They migrated and then didn't have a country anymore after it dissolved. Many acquired Italian citizenship, but some are stateless.
Small numbers (few thousands) -> https://index.statelessness.eu/country/italy
Interesting - saying this since I'm from ex-Yugoslavia. As fucked up the politics of ex-Yu were in the 90s, surely they would have automatically assigned people their new citizenships, depending on the federal republic / successor state people lived in. But perhaps it also required issuing new documents, who knows what procedural issues could've arisen along the way, certainly stoked by the disinterest in the citizenship of some Roma in a foreign country...