this post was submitted on 14 Dec 2024
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Hurling ordure at the TREACLES, especially those closely related to LessWrong.
AI-Industrial-Complex grift is fine as long as it sufficiently relates to the AI doom from the TREACLES. (Though TechTakes may be more suitable.)
This is sneer club, not debate club. Unless it's amusing debate.
[Especially don't debate the race scientists, if any sneak in - we ban and delete them as unsuitable for the server.]
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The whole internet loves Alleged CEO Murderer, a handsome fellow who is alleged to murder CEOs! 5 seconds later We regret to inform you the alleged CEO murderer is a rationalist.
Effective altruisim is fine on paper, and I'm sure there's people effectively effective altruisim, but most people who champion it are...well...Sam Bankman-Fried and friends. Wearing a mask of doing it for the unfortunate and spending everything on a beachfront mansion robbing Peter to pay Paul, with absolutely no real intention of helping the folk that "effective" altruisim is meant to help.
I liked Luigi, and this is gonna sound a bit rough, because he shot a useless piece of shit drain on society. Effective altruisim is nice on paper, but it's almost always used to fleece the stupid so the rich can get richer.
He's young. He's still working out his view of the world. Of course he's gonna investigate ideas, accepting some and rejecting others. He's not far off.
"Which ideas?"
"Oh, you know the ones"
I'm not suggesting which ideas are right and wrong, or which he would accept or reject.
I'm saying he's young and seeking out ideas. Of course some will be problematic. He might reject them. He might not. Regardless, just the fact that he was curious is a point in his favor.
I'm much older than him and this is the first time I've heard of "effective altruism."
you: thinks one is doing this with care and finesse
nobody:
everyone else: 🤨
I wasn't criticizing stoicism or effective altruism because I'm not informed enough on them. I wasn't criticizing rationalism because I'm in favor of it. But I'm willing to bet if society has managed to fuck up stoicism and altruism, we've probably done the same with rationalism too.
I wasn't addressing which ideas or positions he was taking because I can't see inside his head. I have no idea how he thinks, or which paths he has taken. I don't know how he will change in the future. That would be presumptuous.
I do like that he is curious. That's a good quality in a person. Not everyone is.
I..... have to ask: are you actually aware of what the hell the context is of the things that you're commenting about?
I literally just said that this is the first time I've heard of effective altruism. I read what others said about it here, and it doesn't sound good. I have generally favored what little I've read about stoicism, but apparently it's become problematic too. I know better than to talk about ideas that I'm unfamiliar with. Is it a problem that I refuse to assert any kind of intellectual authority where I have none?
So what I said was I appreciate the fact that he is curious. I remember when I was his age. I believed in some batshit crazy things. I was a devout fundamentalist christian, a young earth creationist, an incel before they used the word. You know how I broke free of all that? Insatiable curiosity. I filled my head with other people's ideas. Cognitive dissonance forced me to abandon bad ideas and I clung to good ideas until I was able to form a solid foundation for how to face reality. Rationality was critical to that process.
I'm not prepared to criticize the ideas and positions he was curious about. But I do praise a curious mind. Young people are still forming their positions. Part of that process is investigating ideas, accepting the good and rejecting the bad. I don't know how he will turn out. But curiosity is a good quality.
okay a lot of that is good and all, but here's the flipside: a lot of these fuckwits outright prey on naïve curiousity. it is one of their biggest feeders for taking in people who don't yet know any better
and that's kinda the point. broadly I agree with you, but curiousity is/can be a dangerous thing
(also the reason I asked was the framing of one of your statements, so: Rationalism, big-R specifically. congratulations on learning about some of the worst people around)
Yes, I've gradually become aware of that. You make a good point. It famously tends to kill cats.
I managed to avoid a lot of that, somehow, fortunately. I know my path isn't everyone else's and I certainly wouldn't wish mine on anyone. I dumped Kent Hovind and Ken Hamm and went straight to people like Carl Sagan and Mr Rogers, and made a bunch of leftist and gay friends I'd always been warned to avoid. I never understood the appeal of Jordan Peterson and his ilk.
Actually, I did still get hooked by Graham Hancock for a few weeks a while back. But I'm guarded against grandiose claims and quickly checked out his critics. Lesson learned. I may be vaccinated, but I'm not immune.