this post was submitted on 09 Dec 2024
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[–] Jericho_One 28 points 1 week ago (9 children)

While I am too old to advocate for violence, this line hit me pretty hard:

"Violence never solved anything" is a statement uttered by cowards and predators."

[–] rational_lib 0 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (7 children)

This is a silly ad hominem argument though, an indication that what he's arguing against is too valid to refute on its own merits.

Violence solves things. But by the powerless? No, historically speaking that just leads to military action, often followed by mass executions. Fighting fascism with violence is like fighting fire with gasoline. They feed off that shit. Maybe you can argue it worked in Haiti, albeit with a lot of help from yellow fever. But have you been to Haiti?

He's right that peaceful protests never solve anything. But organizing and acting as a bloc solves a lot. General strikes, civil disobedience, boycotts, even voting as a group has a strong track record of changing things.

[–] Jericho_One 7 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I want to believe that peaceful organization like civil disobedience leads to change, but I can't recall seeing that work in recent history...

[–] rational_lib -5 points 1 week ago (2 children)

How recent is recent? Tunisia, Egypt (well until the population turned out to be too dumb for democracy anyway) are examples.

It hasn't worked in the US because it's been too half-assed and the existence of democratic options lowers incentives. Contrast the successful civil disobedience during the civil rights era, where the right to participate in elections was one of the things being denied. But with the increasing signs that democracy is being controlled by a few billionaires, it may see a comeback.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

and the existence of democratic options lowers incentives.

Those don’t exist anymore. Not in any real capacity, at least. More like utterly useless window dressing and decorative veneer, much like how North Korea is “democratic” simply because they put that word into the country’s name.

Corporations own nearly all the politicians short of ones like Bernie Sanders and OAC. Corporations write the laws and tell the politicians what to vote for. Corporations own and control EVERYTHING, and you have weapons-grade child-like naïvité if you think the working class has any real political power left in America.

[–] rational_lib 1 points 6 days ago

The unionized working class has plenty of power. Both parties catered to unions during the campaigns. Why? Because every politician is afraid of a bunch of people who could go either way deciding to vote as one. If there were one overarching union representing everyone in the working class, regardless of race, location, or position, the minimum wage would be $100k/year.

[–] trashgirlfriend 4 points 1 week ago

well until the population turned out to be too dumb for democracy anyway

Liberals when

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