this post was submitted on 22 Nov 2024
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So we forever surrender any and all autonomy and agency in the face of nuclear blackmail? Folding on Ukraine now, only reinforces two lessons:
The NATO/CSTO ‘nuclear umbrella’ curbs the need or desire to seek a domestic nuclear arms program - Pakistan sought nuclear weapons in the 80s after their rival India got them, and the proliferation network afterwards arguably contributed to Iranian knowhow for their own weapons program:
Which nuclear power did the invading again? In 2014 and 2022? And who is the one constantly harping about nuking their enemies?
If you buy into Euromaidan being a CIA color revolution, sure I guess, but that still doesn’t explain how the population mobilized both then and during the invasion to resist imperial Russian encroachment.
especially in the face of overwhelming western indifference
US controlled Ukrained is the one that provoked this war. Liberation of Crimea and Donbas a direct consequence of that provocation. Of course Maidan was a CIA colour revolution, but the ultranationalists the US installed (Victoria Newland and Geoff Pryatt convo) had nothing to do with the trade liberalization Maidan movement, that US controlled IMF sabotaged anyway as prelude to coup against Yanukovych. Maidan was not about cutting all ties with Russia. It was about expanding them. Yanukovych tried but was sabotaged by "supposed friends" for the coup.
There is zero evidence of Ukrainian people enthusiasm for this war. Conscription, and kidnappings for conscription. Massive emigration. No more elections anywhere. Any party/official/parliamentarian that says "to the last Ukrainian" is not ideal loses the right to ever speak publicly again.
So the lesson here, is if you ever have control of an area you need to forcibly assimilate them against their will so they become ‘your’ people and decades later you can justify invading to ~~defend Germans in the Sudetenland~~ defend ethnic rights in Crimea.
That’s the reason why the east/west split past the Dnieper river exists - the Imperial Russians ran their pseudo-genocide everywhere, the USSR kept trying whilst looting the industrial and agricultural spoils, and once the UkSSR got independence and were allowed to have their own national identity, they pursued it. The same happened in almost every former USSR holding, and we saw how Russia decimated Chechen society when they dared assert a desire for self determination.
Please cite proof for this “zero enthusiasm” Ukrainians have for defending themselves you allege. Regardless, everything you describe is what happens during any war and mobilization - Russia already had theirs during peacetime because life outside Moscow is shit, and again during the last mobilization. They’ve resorted to mass recruitment of unwitting and desperate migrants and internal minorities being promised citizenship and cash payments.
If nazi Germany vs Czechoslovakia, or NATO vs Serbia spent 8 years negotiating peace with a partner that just by participating fully acknowledged the nationalist violent evil that must be morally stopped (2 fn Minsk accords), then absolutely those powers should have liberated an ethnic minority being abused by an evil scourge. Even more so, if the evil is being done purely by puppets wishing to diminish Russia by provoking war through the evil.
I don't know CIA involvement everywhere else, but CIA/State spent $5B+ on top of NED bs to "fake liberalize (Maidan)" Ukraine while supporting Ukraine's nazi collaboration extermination camp past to take power and implement their hate. If a foreign power had supported Malcom X/Black Panthers with that much funding, US could have had its own revolutionary coup. While today, extreme US divisiveness has resulted in an extreme domestic agenda, that is Israel first meddling, but distracted as Russia meddling, by the fake opposition fundraising party that successfully achieved their Israel power maximization goals.
Your statement is that hate is the best motivation for government. Then if Ukraine historical grievances towards the country that granted it freedom, makes it completely valid/rational to exterminate them all if they don't agree to apartheid, then surely, hatred of transgenders and immigrants in America is a good path to support Israel, or black hatred against a country that has expanded its freedoms (however slowly) since abolition makes "eat the rich whitey" the alternative best form of government?
Ukraine post their 1991 liberation was relatively harmonious. As obviously as Canada should be respectful and close to US, Ukraine should be to Russia. When you glorify manufacturing/amplifying hate and divisiveness as the best rulership of a country, you demonically immorally wish that country or its neighbours diminished and destroyed. Not only is your demonism immoral, it is strengthening instead of diminishing Russia. The most GOP/Neocon/warmongering pseudo liberal wing of the Democratic party is making an identity out of stupid wars supporting nazi lies to diminish a nuclear power, creating inflation, and choosing escalation to extend the war length to strengthen the GOP bastion of weapons and oil profits through permawar, and pseudo liberals are invested in such an identity. An identity that relies on validating every hateful impulse that distant history could cause to revive.
You failed to retort to my direct challenge of this bullshit, so I’ll do your homework for you:
Hardly “zero enthusiasm” eh?
If Russia actually gave a shit about Russophones/ethnic Russians they installed in Crimea/Donbass, they should have repatriated them in to Russia under Russian protection. Not start a border crisis in 2014 or a full scale invasion that has culled the ‘DPRK’ or ‘LPRK’ population and callously thrown them into the battlefield for Muscovy’s territorial gains.
Oh noes, poor poor puny Russia feels hurt because their ~~Slav brothers~~ former slave colonies rejected your yoke and domination! We’re vewy vewy sowwy we upset you, here’s more sanctions. Enjoy being friends with the hermit kingdom and Iran, what a group of nations to link up with.
“Granted” lol More like the USSR was so corrupted and rotten it couldn’t hold onto the fringes of its imperial abolitions, and Gorbachev had to finally be the grown up Premier and realize the truth; The Baltics hate you, the USSR satellites hate you, the west distrusts you, China is picking you apart for economic gain, and your neo-colonial adventures in MENA are showing your true face to the global south.
Harmony does not mean subservience and domination. Canada frequently tells the US to get bent, and I dont see US troops annexing a land bridge to Alaska or ‘protecting Quebecois minority rights’ by invading. Part or respecting others, is respecting the or autonomy and decisions.
So a Ukrainian national identity is antithesis with Russia existing? Or is it more that Russia refuse a to let Ukraine exist independently? 🤔
500 rubles a have been added to your account, well done vatnik. You sure showed us that you aren’t posting unhinged screeds about ‘Russia has the RIGHT to dominate them’ or ‘we were ruthlessly provoked in to attacking, its your fault’ or ‘we deserve a buffer zone, fuck their self determination’.
Nobody is talking about ending Russia, outside of letting Putin keep on bleeding it dry from within. That talk gets saved for Iran by the neocon hawks, dumb as that is.
Crimeans have the right to not be ruled by nazis that hate them, and to keep their land. Crimea was a gift to Ukraine by Kruchev in late 50s. It doesn't really have a Ukrainian identity. 98% referendum in favour of joining Russia actually matches CIA stooge polls of the population.
Simply, where "national identity" = WW2 nazi leaders getting national holidays, and imposing apartheid on ethnic Russians, that "aritificially US transformed national identity" is choosing a hateful, unproductive, poking of a bear that is equally smart to all others who have poked a bear for purely whimsical stupidity. Russia's peace terms/red lines have always involved a Ukraine existing independently.
Yes it is majority Russophile/Russian population today, but if you actually care about humanism, you’re not going to like the reason why… it’s another case of the Russian state committing genocide against a minority people who dared assert cultural independence. It was never Khrushchev’s to ‘gift’ after Stalin ravaged the population for geopolitical reasons. It should be for the actual ethnic Crimean, Tartars, etc to decide, not for Russia to cynically abuse as a causus belli for a land grab.
Funny. Because what you claim Russia wanted, existed. And as recently as 1997 signed agreements of mutual peace, affirmed borders (including then semi-autonomous Crimea as part of Ukraine), and confirmed equal rights for all.
Russia cannot seriously claim other nation states as a required ‘neutral buffer’ whilst they themselves seek a return to empire. If the anxiety is truly about foreign invasion, then why wasn’t the border fortified AT ALL before? Finland and Sweden respected that request for neutrality for decades - and Russia proved that political norms, memorandums of understanding, and treaties were worthless - NATO membership is the best bet of territorial integrity against Russia.
If they weren’t doing it to themselves and lashing out against the whole world it might be funny. Instead there’s hundreds of thousands dead, even more wounded and maimed, millions displaced, and the world harmony thrown away - because one former KGB clown refuses to step off his gilded throne atop the carrion.
Ukraine was more loud mouth whiny bitches over "holomodor" than genuine victims relative to other USSR members. Western nazification of Ukraine started with UN manipulation to celebrate their non-victimization, and reinforce "Stalin bad" narrative. Stalin, during a global famine had to make decision on how to deal with extortionists.
Opening up a history book in order to find more people/ghosts who should share your hate, to start a discussion on reparations, has to be viewed cynically as intentionally divisive rather than productive. Tartars where in the apartheid outgroup of US nazification 2014 coup.
Exactly. Changing that path required political interference for nazification motivated by ever more distant history.
What you project as Russia's past is the US present. It is only extreme corruption for colonial subservience that explains anchoring to a declining empire in order to become its sacrificial pawn and dependence on Empire's demonic evil. Humanizing the US, and its hypocritical rules based world order (ICC inclusive), brings US threats to annihilate their allies dependent upon them, when enthusiasm for their genocidal operations is lacking. The US led nazification of Ukraine was always an intentional plan to suicide the nation.
Absolutely, Russia should understand the reality of US evil and demonism, and defend accordingly.
You’re on tankie bingo speed run - genocide denial, USSR was always right, anything I don’t like is CIA/Nazis, everything is active measures/color revolutions not populist uprising, cynical claims to defend human rights whilst promoting pan-nationalism, aneurism world salad posed as coherent thought, and the classic ‘great evil’ line parroted.
Enjoy your block I’m done attempting a dialogue with you; you’ve dodged basic questions and cherry picked, refuted basic provable facts, and through this brought ZERO citation for any of your bullshit. Not everyone 100% buys the Nord explosion narrative or that there are 0 ultranationalists/neo-nazis in Ukraine, but goddamn you have either swallowed the Kremlin line wholeheartedly or are a sock puppet troll.
Believe me, a Ukrainian family that has endured 1,000 days of war simply wants peace. De-escalation is a crucial step toward preventing further loss of life on both sides of this devastating conflict.
I’m gonna let the Ukrainians, fighting and dying for their people and land, decide when they’ve had enough - but don’t forget that we are simultaneously in the process of abandoning them, and without military aid they see the writing on the wall.
Understand that taking a ceasefire now without some kind of concrete security guarantee only lets Russia rearm and prepare another offensive at their leisure. Be it domestic nukes, or NATO membership, Ukraine needs an ace in their hand if they are to survive
If Russia makes any moves, the US and its allies have every square mile of the country under surveillance. Instead of pursuing peace, the US prioritized weapon sales and profits, with arms manufacturers benefiting immensely. Powerful interests align, and human lives are lost for profit. NATO should fulfill its purpose by standing against aggression if Russia rearms and attacks. However, this reactionary approach is flawed; meaningful preparations and dialogue are essential to achieve peace.
I wholeheartedly agree that the ‘aid-laundering’ into MIC was cynical and in the long term self serving, but almost all aid except IMF debt forgiveness is not fully altruistic and serves the donor and recipient - that’s the unfortunate reality of geopolitics.
I’m gonna fight you on ‘meaning dialogue’ because ever since the Berlin Wall came down, the west opened itself to Russia, politically, economically, and culturally. And at practically every turn where the Russkiy Mir met opposition they’ve thrown shitfits and spurned regime change and invasions - do the million of former USSR vassals ‘belong’ to Moscow? Do the Baltics only exist as Russia’s buffer zone, forever denied self determination?
We also have to look at our past and come to the table ready to make it work. Meaning that both sides dont get 100% of what they want but can come to an agreement for peace. The US continuous building military bases around russia, this behavior doesn't make us friendly to them. Thats why open diplomacy is so important, russians and Americans should know that their governments did everything to avoid war before sending us to the front lines!