this post was submitted on 15 Nov 2024
280 points (85.2% liked)
linuxmemes
21569 readers
670 users here now
Hint: :q!
Sister communities:
Community rules (click to expand)
1. Follow the site-wide rules
- Instance-wide TOS: https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/
- Lemmy code of conduct: https://join-lemmy.org/docs/code_of_conduct.html
2. Be civil
- Understand the difference between a joke and an insult.
- Do not harrass or attack members of the community for any reason.
- Leave remarks of "peasantry" to the PCMR community. If you dislike an OS/service/application, attack the thing you dislike, not the individuals who use it. Some people may not have a choice.
- Bigotry will not be tolerated.
- These rules are somewhat loosened when the subject is a public figure. Still, do not attack their person or incite harrassment.
3. Post Linux-related content
- Including Unix and BSD.
- Non-Linux content is acceptable as long as it makes a reference to Linux. For example, the poorly made mockery of
sudoin Windows. - No porn. Even if you watch it on a Linux machine.
4. No recent reposts
- Everybody uses Arch btw, can't quit Vim, and wants to interject for a moment. You can stop now.
Please report posts and comments that break these rules!
Important: never execute code or follow advice that you don't understand or can't verify, especially here. The word of the day is credibility. This is a meme community -- even the most helpful comments might just be shitposts that can damage your system. Be aware, be smart, don't fork-bomb your computer.
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
I can't tell if this in-fighting on Linux flavors is in good humor or just snobby opinions.
false dichotomy. Sometimes people justifiably dislike something for reasons beyond elitism (e.g. Canonical is a for-profit corporation that muddies the waters of FOSS), but it's also not just playful bants.
Also, as with every opinionated topic: do your own research and think critically. Don't hate Ubuntu until you have tried it and have investigated those who maintain it. Don't praise it until you do so either.
I don't care if you come to a different conclusion than me, as long as you didn't just function on the "wisdom of the crowd"
Like most things in life, it's somewhere in the middle. Some of the criticism is factual and valid. Some, a matter of taste (mostly relating to GNOME). Some arises from negative personal experience. Some is just elitist bluster.
The best thing to do is to be rational and critical. Never dismiss an opinion outright without separating the truth from the bullshit.
I think it's just elitism. The worst example is Chris Titus making a video where he explains why you shouldn't use Ubuntu. And then proceeds to make video explaining how it's not actually that bad and he uses it with a different DE.
But now 300K people saw that Ubuntu bad for stupid reasons, from a "reputable" source.
I've been using it for many years and I have no idea who Chris Titus is.
There's no reason to use Ubuntu over Debian, especially since Bookworm included non-free firmware in installation media by default.
I think you're far too gone if you genuinely believe there's no need for Ubuntu.
Ubuntu has its own kernel, they have a security team making patches specifically for Ubuntu, there's a tool that detects any drivers your device needs and downloads them for you, and their GNOME implementation is the best I've seen. I also like the new software centre in 24.04, displaying both apt and snap packages when you search for them, really fast.
And yes I know, you will tell me that you can replicate all of this on Debian. And you can replicate basically everything Debian can do on RHEL. So there's no need for Debian. Ans there's no need for RHEL since...
If there really was no point in using Ubuntu, people wouldn't use it. And yes this applies to Windows as well. Users aren't braindead idiots. If there is a much better alternative that suits their needs they will use that instead.
Edit: Also free 10 year support for non-commercial use.
Debian has its own kernel, and security team, in fact as Ubuntu is downstream of Debian they get the full benefit of Debian's security patches (yes Canonical maintains their own kernel, but the vast majority of other packages are pulled from Debian's repositories), fwupd isn't unique to Ubuntu, KDE has been combining update managers into Discover for ages, not everybody likes Gnome.
You're saying "replicate" like these are all things Ubuntu did first and everyone else is copying them. That's ignorant at best and disingenuous at worst.
It may surprise you to see how many Debian contributors are doing so on Canonical's payroll.
That's not what I said. I didn't claim that Ubuntu invented the idea of a software store. I just said that they add a lot of value to Debian. So Ubuntu's existence is perfectly justified. And replicating their setup takes time. Especially how their gnome is set up. i have a script that turns vanilla Gnome on any distro into one that looks like Ubuntu's, so I know.
Is Linux Mint useless as well? It just preconfigures Debian/Ubuntu to be more user friendly. Anyone can do that on their own.
Interestingly, Mint strips away several things that Ubuntu enforces, like their Gnome setup and Snaps entirely, removing most of the "value" added by Canonical.
More interestingly is that Linux Mint offers a Debian version, sidestepping Ubuntu completely.
It's fine if you like Ubuntu's default Gnome setup. That's the point of having multiple distros. It's fine if you like Snaps. It's not fine to force everyone into your ecosystem or enforce your choices on others. If you don't think that both of those things are true of Canonical, go try to install the .deb version of Firefox.
I opened a 24.04 VM just for fun. I cosplayed a regular user who discovered that his snap version of firefox isn't working well.
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/install-firefox-linux
I copied and pasted the commands from there, to add mozilla's repo and downloaded firefox from there. Then I went into Ubuntu's new GUI app store and clicked Uninstall next to Firefox. Super hard stuff. Walled garden with walls so tall I can't see their end.