this post was submitted on 15 Nov 2024
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37
Podman or rootless docker? (lemmy.ca)
submitted 1 day ago by [email protected] to c/selfhosted
24 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

I’m moving to a new machine soon and want to re-evaluate some security practices while I’m doing it. My current server is debian with all apps containerized in docker with root. I’d like to harden some stuff, especially vaultwarden but I’m concerned about transitioning to podman while using complex docker setups like nextcloud-aio. Do you have experience hardening your containers by switching? Is it worth it? How long is a piece of string?

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 15 hours ago (3 children)

I'm very much biased towards Podman, but from what I understand rootless Docker is a bit of an afterthought, while Podman has been developed from the ground up with rootless in mind. That should be reason enough.

The very few things Docker can do that Podman struggles a bit with are stuff that usually involves mounting the Docker socket in the container or other stupid things. Since you care about security, you wouldn't do that anyway. Not to mention there's also rootful Podman, when you need that level of access.

I'd recommend an RPM-based distro with Podman, the few times I've tried Podman on a deb distro, there's always been something wonky. It's been a while, though.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 hours ago

Does Podman work well when you have multiple rootless containers that you want to communicate securely in a least-privilege configuration (each container only has access to what it needs)? That is the one thing I couldn't figure out how to do well with Podman.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 12 hours ago (1 children)

Podman actually run fine on Debian 12. Though the packaged version is a bit old. Does not support podman compose command. Though podman-compose works.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 hours ago

Thanks. Last time I tried it was just after bookworm released, and on ARM, so it has probably got better

[–] [email protected] 2 points 12 hours ago (1 children)

I'm thinking about an immutable OS with podman support first and foremost. Would you recommend Fedora CoreOS?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 hours ago

It's a really solid combo, but if you're not familiar with CoreOS I wouldn't change both at once. Meaning migrate the services to Podman first, then switch the OS. I've meant to switch from Alma 9 to CoreOS a long time, but haven't found the time.

I noticed you run Nextcloud AIO, just so you know, that's one of those "mount the docker socket" monstrosities. I'd look into switching to the community NC image and separate containers managed yourself. AIO is easy, but if someone gets shell to the NC container, it's basically giving root to your host.

Either way, you're going to have trouble running AIO with Podman.