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I was very careful with my words, and very intentionally avoided the word "promise" because I knew it would be spun this way, even though I would argue that even if one promises to do something, they still have the right to say no (i.e. Is a woman who promises to have sex with a man required to have sex with that man? Or does she still maintain the right to change her mind?)
So can we retry again without putting the word "promise" in my mouth? Am I punishing that person by deciding to not give them a raise as a retaliation of the person saying "fuck you" to me? Or is it because the raise was never theirs, it's impossible for me to punish them by taking it away?
I am saying that if what is to be given and then not is money, then it is punishment, but if it is sex, it is not, because these things are fundamentally different in a way that makes it reasonable to take one back without justification but not the other
But your whole point relied on the "promise" aspect of it. If there was no promise of it, only the likelihood of it happening, then it falls under the same thing that there is no crime by withholding it. I agree that sex and money are different, as they are legally held to different standards. But that's a distinction without a meaning in the context of the current discussion.
Let me try it this way.
I suggest that I'm going to have sex with someone. Then, as a form of retaliation, I tell them I'm not going to have sex with them. By your logic, this is not punishment.
I suggest that I'm going to give someone money. Then, as a form of retaliation, I tell them I'm not going to give them that money. By your logic, this is punishment.
This seems blatantly contradictory, even if we maintain that withholding sex is less a punishment. It's still the same thing - withholding something that would likely have been given had there been no reason to retaliate - the only difference is that the state can't do anything about the punishment when it comes to sex.
I think I see the problem with your logic here. This whole 4B movement is about women taking back control over their bodies, especially in an upcoming era that's allowing misogynistic men to be more vocal and accepted in society.
It has nothing to do with punishment. Claiming that women are "retaliating against" or "punishing" men is making the topic about men instead of what it's really about - women's rights.
No women is required to date a man, or sleep with a man, or even associate with men. Period. 4B is just a way for women to protect themselves from the incoming onslaught of openly misogynistic men that Trump's presidency is justifying.
Will women dump their current partners and/or spouses to join this movement? Doubtful, unless there are already some red flags there that they're just now picking up. But that's inconsequential because again, this movement isn't about men.
As men, it's so easy for us live our lives without fear. Almost no one tries to rape and/or murder us because they thought we were hot. We hardly ever have stalkers. So we don't realize just how prevalent that scenario is in a woman's life. Even my own wife, who I always felt was tougher than me, is still terrified to go out by herself at night because she's already been victim to sexual harassment and assault, multiple times. That's not something I've ever had to deal with in my own life.
And the crazy things is, women really don't know who they're getting involved with until it's too late. Sure, to us men it seems like most men are fine and harmless. But that's because we're not the sexual target of most men. A dude who seems like a fine gentleman might have some fucked-up desires or views on women's autonomy behind closed doors, and they can be really good at pretending to be a decent human being in public. It's only once a woman is alone behind those closed doors that they might truly learn the awful plans a guy has for her, and at that point, it might be too late to get out without danger to life or limb. Or worse, surviving a situation like that and then having no one believe you in court, so you can't prevent that person from stalking you.
Preventing that scenario in the first place is the whole point of 4B. Women always live in fear of dating men because it's always a gamble. Truly kind and respectful men who understand boundaries and never push them are extremely rare. Even "decent" men still think with their dicks from time to time and push boundaries, hoping they can convince their partner to cave and give them what they want. With the surge of misogynists coming out of the woodwork and being openly threatening to women, it risks spreading acceptance of the mindset that women don't get bodily autonomy around men. So abstaining from men entirely is the safest thing they can do right now. It's too risky trying to figure out if someone is truly a gentleman or if they're just putting on a mask to get laid.
Basically, women are saying they're trying to protect their lives and you're trying to turn the discussion toward men's rights instead. The topic isn't about men. And treating a women's decision to retain bodily autonomy like it's a reward or punishment for guys is honestly super misogynistic in itself. No man is entitled to a women's body; it is not punishment for a woman to decide not to associate with a man.
The article makes it clear that this is retaliation against all men for voting against their rights. Even though there were plenty of men that voted with them, and plenty of women who voted against them. Trump won the majority of white women. They are making it about men, yet I'm not allowed to point out making it about all men doesn't make sense and is misandry?
If they didnt want it to be a topic about men, they shouldn't have made it about all when not all men are guilty, and plenty of women are.