this post was submitted on 16 Jul 2023
158 points (95.9% liked)

World News

39106 readers
2256 users here now

A community for discussing events around the World

Rules:

Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.


Lemmy World Partners

News [email protected]

Politics [email protected]

World Politics [email protected]


Recommendations

For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

President Vladimir Putin said Russia had a "sufficient stockpile" of cluster bombs and reserved the right to use them if such munitions, the use of which he said he regarded as a crime, were deployed against Russian forces in Ukraine.

Ukraine said on Thursday it had received cluster bombs from the United States

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] [email protected] 27 points 1 year ago (3 children)
[–] [email protected] 24 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yep- not sure how putin making this statement is any kind of news.

[–] vimdiesel 1 points 1 year ago

this is like an announcement to the russian people who don't really know what is going on in Ukraine. That's why he still has 80% support, most russians are fooled by state tv and think all the info on the internet is western propaganda when actually only 23% of it is.

[–] little_cow 9 points 1 year ago (4 children)

From what I understand Putin is using a stricter definition of "cluster bombs" as a muntition containing a bomblets submunition.

I have seen of Russian videos munitions are hypersonic missiles, thermobaric bombs (incendiary submunition), and timed remote mine submunitions (a timed self-destruct feature or one that turns it inert after a while) but none utilizing a pressure fuse like the butterfly mines that were used by Ukraine.

They are terrible weapons regardless of definition

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Even if it was just pure anti-personnel clusters, we have evidence of that far back in 2022. So even then he would be lying. For example there is photo graphic evidence from the bomb disposal teams in Ukraine of 9N24 submunition. Which is soviet pure anti-personnel submunition for their cluster dispensers. It has no other purpose. It isn't even dual use dumb HEAT/FRAG submunition. 9N24 is pure fragmentations anti-personnel round with simple contact fuse. Hit's ground, the explosive core along the main cylinder shaped munition explodes and well the whole outside wall is lined with steel balls to be thrown in 360 all around.

Similarly 9N210 HE/FRAG munitions have been documented. Again useless against armored targets, only use case is against soft targets like humans. As have 9N235 again HE/FRAG sub munitions been documented.

All same purpose, just little different sized and exact design for different dispensers. Some those might theoretically have fuses with self destruct. However the whole point about cluster munitions being bad is fuses fail, including supposed self-destruct fuses. There is no such thing as 100% reliable fuse, even self destruct one.

My source: Armaments Research Services articles on the subject. I'm sure there is bunch of other more official sources also, including listing more individual incidents and attacks. ARES are just convenient source here, since they are interested the weapons technologies and types used in conflicts, so they have bunch of articles of "This specific type of submunitions has now been seen in Ukraine".

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

none utilizing a pressure fuse like the butterfly mines that were used by Ukraine.

Both sides claim the other is using these, and both sides likely are.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago

Yes, and called them "precision strikes against military targets".