this post was submitted on 22 Oct 2024
118 points (92.1% liked)
Ukraine
8240 readers
385 users here now
News and discussion related to Ukraine
*Sympathy for enemy combatants is prohibited.
*No content depicting extreme violence or gore.
*Posts containing combat footage should include [Combat] in title
*Combat videos containing any footage of a visible human must be flagged NSFW
Donate to support Ukraine's Defense
Donate to support Humanitarian Aid
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
I mean honestly, I would not consider it because drones are tiny and quick. I don't think I'd be able to shoot one.
Well can't outrun it and you can't take the ammo with you after you die.
But depending on direction your fired ammo can fall on someone else on your side and now not only are you dead but you killed someone else via friendly fire.
You have to be extraordinarily unlucky to be hit by a wild shot at range. Unless there's someone right behind the drone it's not going to matter.
Well if I was forced to fight like these poor bastards likely where then I doubt that would be a concern.
Also you are very much underestimating the ballistic properties of those rifles. At such an angle those rounds are not landing within a km of this fight.
Russians don't care much about friendly fire.
I think you would be even less likely to outrun or juke one.
That is true, but I feel my chances would be smaller if I were fucking around with grabbing my gun from my back first
If you are in an active combat zone, your gun shouldn't be on your back :) unless you are on base but none of these looked like they were. Unless you are talking about switching to a shotgun like some people were mentioning.
Either way this is definitely a new dynamic to modern warfare.
Yeah that's fair. Good thing I'm not in the army I guess haha. I wouldn't be a good fit anyways >.<
Depends on what you are shooting with. A standard military rifle would be a difficult shot. A standard hunting shotgun has a good chance - though a shotgun doesn't have much range.
I hate the "shotguns don't have range" thing. Sure, they're usually less than a rifle, but they're pretty accurate at long ranges, even when not using slugs. When you use slugs then they're competitive with a rifle with a lot more force.
Shotguns don't work like video games. They're not only useful for 2m or less. This article says about 70m for buckshot should be accurate, and 180m for some slugs, and most engagements are within 100m and a large majority within 200m.
For shotguns, it's all about selecting the right shell for the target. I wouldn't be that surprised if some militaries start equipping one person per element at least with a shotgun, and giving them a mix of something like birdshot for drones and slugs or buckshot for enemy combatants. It'd add some small amount of extra strain on logistics since they can't use the same ammo, but I could see it being incredibly useful.
You are mistaking accuracy for lethal range. A lucky shot with buckshot could hit a human at 150m, but the shot will bounce right off their tshirt. A lucky shot with an infantry rifle could hit that human at 3km and kill them. Both of the above shots are luck - nobody can do that intentionally no matter how much training they have. Both of those are about as far as it is possible to reach with the respective gun (pointing up at a 45 degree angle)
If you want to talk about accuracy in the hands of someone well trained, your article is correct. This is well training - you won't get that much training during basic training. That same training on an infantry rifle would get 800m with confidence (but if you are going to train someone that well you give them a more powerful gun so they can get 2000m).
I agree video games get this wrong all the time.
But you shouldn't need a shotgun hit that would kill or incapacitate a human to take down a small plastic quadcopter drone.
The drone takedown range for a shotgun should be longer than against a human, but without data I couldn't say what that is.
For sure regular buckshot isn't what you'd want to use, but I don't know if there's a term for a custom shot designed to penetrate light armor on a person but still isn't a slug. Kevlarshot? Slugs are probably what would be used for anti-personnel though, for the reason you mentioned. Birdshot would still be useful for anti-drone though, since they need to be lightly armored to fly more easily. If you force them to armor it then that costs payload. It definitely seems like something that should be being considered in this conflict.
I know the US uses shotguns for breaching, so it wouldn't surprise me at all if they also carried some Birdshot with them in the future. I don't know Ukraine already carries shotguns. I haven't seen any so I don't think they do.
I don't think you can custom design shot in a useful way. At least I can't think of any way to impart a spin on shot which is what you want to get range and accuracy. I'm also not sure if that would be a good idea - short range is often an advantage - if you miss you don't kill someone on your side you cannot see.
I just meant fewer larger pellets, which will have more force per pellet and they'd also go straighter through momentum. There's also the option of flechette (little arrows), which I forgot about earlier. They're not super common, but they do exist.