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Israeli military says Iran has fired missiles at Israel (abcnews.go.com)

submitted 4 months ago by return2ozma to c/world

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 months ago (2 children)

The moment the first news dropped on October 7 it was clear Israel was to retaliate with a bloodbath and they started bombing Gaza the same evening. If Hezbollahs goal at the time was to make use of the situation, they would have went for an all out attack while IDF was in disarray.

The goal was to increase the pressure on Israel for reaching a cease-fire agreement through keeping their northern settlers out of their settlements, rendering the region economically inactive and the settlers angry at their government.

It seems like no one anticipated this to go into a yearlong war. Initially Hamas seemed to have aimed to reach a ceasefire quickly through a hostage exchange deal, but Israel put genocide over having their hostages return alive.

[–] Tedesche -2 points 4 months ago

“Something something, make excuses for terrorists.”

[+] creamy -7 points 4 months ago (2 children)

There's been no evidence of genocide. I have plenty of criticisms of the Israeli government, and if you were arguing it's indiscriminate you'd have a point. But genocide? No. We don't call Hiroshima a genocide and that was far worse than what's happening in Gaza. We don't call Dresden a genocide. We don't call shock and awe in Iraq a genocide.

Words have meaning.

[–] FlyingSquid 5 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Rights expert finds ‘reasonable grounds’ genocide is being committed in Gaza: https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/03/1147976

Human Rights Watch founder accuses Israel of genocide: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0j1rk0c

A top U.N. court says Gaza genocide is 'plausible' but does not order cease-fire: https://www.npr.org/2024/01/26/1227078791/icj-israel-genocide-gaza-palestinians-south-africa

[+] creamy -6 points 4 months ago (2 children)

The rate of bombing in Gaza has drastically slowed compared to the opening stages of the war. Israel can be accused of being too blase about civilian death, but there is no evidence of systematic attempts to eradicate the Arab population entirely. I have yet to see any credible evidence of anything but Israel having a disturbing willingness to kill 10 to get 1, if you get me. That's horrific enough, you don't need to exaggerate it by calling it genocide. There's plenty of legitimate enough concerns about Israel's bombing campaign without resorting to sensationalism.

Huge, huge, difference between not caring if you hit the next building by accident in an otherwise precise airstrike, and rounding up and killing them all. You should account for the inherent destructiveness of modern urban warfare also. Go on google earth and look at what the Russians did to cities in East Ukraine. Just because something is horrible, tragic, awful, doesn't make it a genocide. It is impossible to fight a war against an entity like Hamas and not have innocent people hit in the crossfire. Israel is in an unwinnable position in that sense. It either lets hamas terrorize it's population, or it fires back and risks killing innocent people.

It's a complex situation is what I'm getting it. Let's not pretend it's anything else to suit some juvenile good/bad narrative

[–] FlyingSquid 4 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Juvenile? I gave you expert opinions.

[–] creamy -5 points 4 months ago (1 children)

And I have good reason to believe they are wrong. 😊

[–] FlyingSquid 3 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Which is what? What expert opinion do you have? Or is this one of these "I know better than the experts" things?

[–] creamy -4 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Half a million other experts on the internet.

I said my bit, look up what's in it yourself.

[–] FlyingSquid 6 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Except they aren't experts. People who work for the UN and Human Rights Watch are. I'm not sure why you are equating random internet commenters to them. That's highly dishonest. It's like saying that you know more about the brain than a neurologist because a lot of internet commenters agree with you. The universe doesn't work that way.

[–] creamy -4 points 4 months ago (2 children)

I'm not going to get into the internal politics of the UN or the shit track record when it comes to accuracy that the activist wing has. Fact is you and me both know you can find a source that says anything you want. It's irrelevant and boring on top of that. I'm not doing homework for you.

I gave you a couple paragraphs explaining my reasoning. Now if you want to talk about that then fine

[–] FlyingSquid 5 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Again, I didn't just give you the UN.

And you have not found any sources at all. But I get it that you think you know better than any of those dumb experts with their stupid university degrees.

[–] creamy -4 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I actually have one of those stupid degrees.

Jokes on you, I was an expert all along

[–] FlyingSquid 5 points 4 months ago

You don't, but you do have one more post to convince me you're not a troll.

[–] Passerby6497 2 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Fact is you and me both know you can find a source that says anything you want. It’s irrelevant and boring on top of that.

I love seeing people trot out this line, its when you know they know they've run out of arguments lol. When 'anyone can find a source that says anything' and you can't even do that much, you're basically admitting you've lost the argument.

[–] creamy -1 points 4 months ago (1 children)

You got google

[–] Passerby6497 2 points 4 months ago (1 children)

you're ~~basically~~ admitting you've lost the argument

[–] creamy -1 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

I don't do homework for idiots.

I posted a long explanation. Address that or fuck off.

[–] Passerby6497 2 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I don't do homework for idiots.

Awwww, now you've resorted to name calling because you've been called out. That didn't take very long.

I posted a long explanation. Address that or fuck off.

Nah, you posted unsourced bullshit in response to sources, so I'll keep pointing out that you have 0 argument because you clearly don't. You're just desperate to not admit you have no argument, and this is hilarious how far your sort goes to not support your bad arguments instead of just posting sources or going away.

[–] creamy -1 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

Still waiting for you people to address a single thing I said.

What's "my sort"? I'm actually rather critical of Israeli policy, which you'd know if you read my post. But you didn't.

So why post links? So you can not read those too? You don't read, you don't think, you're all reaction, so I mock you. I don't owe you anything. Do your own homework.

[–] Passerby6497 3 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

Why should anyone address unsourced bullshit in response to sourced claims?

ETA: well, I think I've had enough fun arguing with a newly minted troll account

[–] creamy -1 points 4 months ago

Your

Own

Homework

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 months ago (1 children)

but there is no evidence of systematic attempts to eradicate the Arab population entirely.

https://www.ohchr.org/en/instruments-mechanisms/instruments/convention-prevention-and-punishment-crime-genocide

Article II

In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

(a) Killing members of the group;

(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;

(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;

(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;

(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

[–] creamy -1 points 4 months ago

None of that describes to situation in Gaza, which is complicated

[–] Keeponstalin 3 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

There is overwhelming evidence of genocide, Apartheid, and disregard of civilian lives.

Apartheid

Amnesty Report

Human Rights Watch Report

B'TSelem Report with quick Explainer

Genocide

Holocaust scholar to discuss his conclusion that Gaza campaign constitutes genocide

UN Expert Says Impunity for Israel Must End as 'Genocidal Violence' Spreads to West Bank

“A Textbook Case of Genocide”: Israeli Holocaust Scholar Raz Segal Decries Israel’s Assault on Gaza

800+ Legal Scholars Say Israel May Be Perpetrating 'Crime of Genocide' in Gaza

Law for Palestine Releases Database with 500+ Instances of Israeli Incitement to Genocide – Continuously Updated

AP News, Time, Reuters, Vox, CBC

Human Shields

Hamas:

Intentionally utilizing the presence of civilians or other protected persons to render certain areas immune from military attack is prohibited under international law. Amnesty International was not able to establish whether or not the fighters’ presence in the camps was intended to shield themselves from military attacks. However, under international humanitarian law, even if one party uses “human shields”, or is otherwise unlawfully endangering civilians, this does not absolve the opposing party from complying with its obligations to distinguish between military objectives and civilians or civilian objects, to refrain from carrying out indiscriminate or disproportionate attacks, and to take all feasible precautions to spare civilians and civilian objects.

Israel:

Additionally, there is extensive independent verification of Israel using Palestinians as Human Shields:

IDF uses Human Shields,
Including Children (2013 Report)
Israel “Systematically” Uses Gaza Children as Human Shields, Rights Group Finds 2024
Breaking The Silence - Testimonies from IDF Veterans

Deliberate Attacks on Civilians

Israel deliberately targets civilian areas. From in general with the Dahiya Doctrine to multiple systems deployed in Gaza to do so:

Israel also targets Israeli Soldiers and Civilians to prevent them being leveraged as hostages, known as the Hannibal Directive. Which was also used on Oct 7th.

Starvation

Prior to the current hostilities, 1.2 million of Gaza’s 2.2 million people were estimated to be facing acute food insecurity, and over 80 percent were reliant on humanitarian aid. Israel maintains overarching control over Gaza, including over the movement of people and goods, territorial waters, airspace, the infrastructure upon which Gaza relies, as well as the registry of the population. This leaves Gaza’s population, which Israel has subjected to an unlawful closure for 16 years, almost entirely dependent on Israel for access to fuel, electricity, medicine, food, and other essential commodities.

After the imposition of a “total blockade” on Gaza on October 9, Israeli authorities resumed piping water to some parts of southern Gaza on October 15 and, as of October 21, allowed limited humanitarian aid to arrive through the Rafah crossing with Egypt. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said on October 18 that Israel would not allow humanitarian assistance “in the form of food and medicines” into Gaza through its crossings “as long as our hostages are not returned.”

Israel: Starvation Used as Weapon of War in Gaza

[–] creamy -2 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

There is no evidence of genocide. There's sensationalism happening.

Notice you posted opinion schlock

[–] Keeponstalin 1 points 4 months ago

The evidence is right there. You denying it doesn't make it any less the reality.