this post was submitted on 26 Sep 2024
540 points (95.9% liked)

Showerthoughts

30004 readers
675 users here now

A "Showerthought" is a simple term used to describe the thoughts that pop into your head while you're doing everyday things like taking a shower, driving, or just daydreaming. A showerthought should offer a unique perspective on an ordinary part of life.

Rules

  1. All posts must be showerthoughts
  2. The entire showerthought must be in the title
  3. Avoid politics
    • 3.1) NEW RULE as of 5 Nov 2024, trying it out
    • 3.2) Political posts often end up being circle jerks (not offering unique perspective) or enflaming (too much work for mods).
    • 3.3) Try c/politicaldiscussion, volunteer as a mod here, or start your own community.
  4. Posts must be original/unique
  5. Adhere to Lemmy's Code of Conduct

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

I'm ateist just to be clear, but it's undeniable that the path that lead to science stems from academia and univirsities rules and funded by clergy.

Leibniz was a fervent (or rather, average for the time) believer and bended backward to include God in each and any of his hypothesis about the world (so much so that in front of the logical necessities of motion he posited that God planned it all in advance, incuding some funny stuff about each of us being already alive in the ballsacks of our ancestors, to go around the fact that I wouldn't be "godlike" to just spawn new souls every couple of seconds). He invented calculus and mechanical calculators and the likes.

Newton was basically an astrologer.

Bruno hypotized the existence of multiple worlds in space and, to him, that was cool because it meant the domain of God was even wider than previously thought. The Church of the Earth did not like that idea.

On the other hand, Saint Thomas and Saint Agustine both brought back the (relatively) modern approaches of Aristotles and Plato respectively, with a focus on reason as a driving force.

I could agree to disagree but I assume we'd both hate that.

Edit: I guess you stressed the point of "clergy" rather than "fervent believer". I guess? I don't find it that relevant since the members of the clergy, monks mostly, were doing their own thing and there was no centralyzed clergy research plan. You think something too weird and too popular, and the pope comes for you.

[–] scarabic 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Since literally everyone could be described as a believer in the past that’s not what I meant. We started with the word “theologian” and yes I assume any reasonable definition of that word is going to have high, high overlap with the clergy, with perhaps some exceptions.

Newton was basically an astrologer.

You lost me, friend. I’m not even sure we can agree to disagree at this point. I’m just going to back away slowly…

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

You can run but you cannot hide: https://wiki.froth.zone/wiki/Isaac_Newton%27s_occult_studies?lang=en

And no, the people I mentioned moved theology in different directions, they actually did study and engaged with it.

#sorrynotsorry

Edit: changed wikiless instance.

[–] scarabic 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

When your source throws a browser security warning, you automatically lose.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

I can't lose or win this is not a fight.

Here you go, a different instance. It's just wikipedia BTW: https://wiki.froth.zone/wiki/Isaac_Newton%27s_occult_studies?lang=en

Also here: https://webspace.science.uu.nl/~gent0113/astrology/newton_main.htm It's clarified that the idea that Newton was into astrology has been discredited, but you can find reference to the matter at hand, his interest in theology, and the one of many of his/our predecessors.

"From times immemorial, astrology has been a determining factor in the decisions and actions of men of all ranks and stations. At the begin of the 17th century, great scientists as Tycho Brahe, Galileo Galilei, Johannes Kepler and Pierre Gassendi – now best remembered for their roles in the development of modern physics and astronomy – all held astrology in high esteem."

And later:

"inspecting the inventory of the books from his library [...] Among the 1752 books with identifiable titles on this list, no less than 477 (27.2%) were on the subject of theology, 169 (9.6%) on alchemy, 126 (7.2%) on mathematics, 52 (3.0%) on physics and only 33 (1.9%) on astronomy."

I hope you learnt something new. Have a nice day.