Pathfinder 2e
A place for people to discuss Pathfinder 2e
Rules:
1. Be Kind and Respectful
Criticism of the game or its mechanics should not turn into attacks on a member of the community. Community members are encouraged to ask questions or seek advice, and should be able to expect respectful and courteous answers. In general, treat others of the community as you would a colleague or friend.
2 Do Not Post Copyrighted Content
Content that is not covered by the Open Game License, Open RPG Creative License, and/or made publicly available by Paizo or a third party is not allowed. View Paizo's community use policy.
3. Post Content of Quality
Posts should be able to spark dialogue, add interesting perspectives, educate, and otherwise contribute to the 2E experience. Quality EX: homebrew rules, analysis, something you discovered/encountered, memes that teach mechanics, stuff with a story. Low effort EX: the cover of a rulebook, AI generated content, unconstructive complaints such as "I hate..." or "X sucks," does not relate to Pathfinder 2E.
4. Limit Promotional Posts
This is a community and we welcome your content but we expect your participation in this community in return. Only 1 self-promotion post per week is allowed. Verified content creators may promote new content regularly. Only verified content creators can promote posts which may require purchases, sign-ups, or provide incentives for participation.
With the advent of Pathfinder Infinite, users advertising Infinite products will also fall under this rule.
5. Art Post Details and Attribution
Art posts must include a follow-up comment relating them to Pathfinder 2e. This could be a campaign summary, ABC and build, or character profile, as appropriate. You must also credit the artist: images that are uncredited or AI generated will be removed.
view the rest of the comments
They attack different stats. Your assumption about reflex versus fortitude won't survive contact with the enemy. If you're battling a nest of basilisks, your party members aren't going to accept "but most monsters have a better fort save!" as an excuse when they are all turned to stone. You asked when one is better, and the answer is when their reflex is weaker than their fortitude.
Shove steals a movement action too, since the enemy has to walk back to you. It doesn't make them off-guard, but it does potentially get them out of position. If you have Reactive Strike and a Reach weapon, a shove can be devastating, particularly a 10ft shove where it requires a stride rather than a step to undo.
Also, since you upgrade success to critical success, that means you can push further. Positioning matters a lot in pf. You could fuck with the enemy's attempts to set up a flank or otherwise do something powerful that requires good positioning. Trip makes the enemy vulnerable, but Shove can be a defensive tool.
Thanks for the explanation, is there anyway to learn a monsters save DCs without either trial and error or metagaming?
The Recall Knowledge action. It's why INT and WIS are such strong stats in this system.
You can get an approximate DC without metagaming based on how the creature is described.
If the creature is slow, big, or tough, it probably has a higher Fortitude than Reflex.
If the creature is small, fast, or wily, it probably has a higher Reflex than Fortitude.
I don't know if they carried it over to 2e, but in 1e a creature that has more than two legs is more resistant to being tripped. Creatures with no legs or who are flying/swimming/burrowing are probably immune to being tripped.