this post was submitted on 24 Jul 2024
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Liberty Hub
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The post you linked to by MindTraveller is an active misrepresentation of events.
Traveller and I are not "in agreement" about much of anything. Their politics are very far removed from mine
This is the text of the message I sent advising that I was shutting the group down.
Given the post which you linked, (which I had not seen until now) I will be removing Traveller and the new community, because once more, the goal appears to be to create division
My goal of blahaj zone is not political. The goal is to allow trans people to have a space where they can exist on their own terms, without having to pretend to be someone they're not. My own political views are closer to Links/LibertyHub than nonvoters or its ilk. Yet as long as there is no bigotry or gatekeeping, then trans people with politics at odds with my own are welcome. It's why we have an "armed queers" community, despite my own strong distaste for gun culture.
Communities/posters that exist primary to create division, without adding anything positive back, have no place here.
well thank you for clarifying and doing this much, i guess. but frankly this hasn’t been a safe place, none of this situation has been okay and i’m extremely not comfortable with grail’s behaviour as well. i’ve moved to hexbear despite my political differences with them and they’re honestly creating a far safer and more welcoming space for me as an anarchist and trans person. like seriously sort this place out if you want it to be safe for trans people. it currently is not.
Hexbear is only safe for trans folks whose politics don't clash too strongly with theirs. They have a whole community dedicated to dunking on folk who disagree with them, and that includes trans folk. If you step too far from what they deem acceptable, harassing and dogpiling is seen as an acceptable response.
Many of the trans folks on blahaj zone, despite being left aligned, would be deemed to be "libs" by Hexbear, and actively harassed until they left.
If you think that it's ok that the majority of folk on this instance (well, the majority of trans folk anywhere to be honest) are valid targets for harassment, I don't know what to tell you other than we have very different ideas of what trans safety looks like.
I've seen you repeat this three times now and I don't understand why you feel the need to exaggerate so heavily.
You can look the posts up, they're in the first ten pages of the top year posts (i.e. since hexbear started federation with other instances). Or don't, and you can continue scaring people away from from a place that aggressively moderates to keep its trans users away from bad actors at the first sign of trouble.
To the best of my knowledge, the dunk tank is still there, which is a community centered around harassment of "libs". Unless the admins have stepped in to remove that community, then my comment still stands.
Your original comment does not stand but okay.
I just hope next time a DRONERIGHTS or midtraveler comes along you'll act quicker
Can hope but it's doubtful at this point
Those statements are misleading. hexbears routinely break and bend their own dunk tank rules when they feel salty enough.
You can look it up bud i don't really give a shit what the guy who popularized the term 'brigading' thinks.
I don't have to look it up. I've experienced it multiple times. Also, you think I popularized "brigading"?!
Disengage.
Again, this is not a matter of a report. it's a matter of culture. The hexbears and often the hexbear mods themsleves routinely ignore your own rules in the sidebar instead of respecting them, and then you expect the victimized party to handle it. This keeps happening to people and they keep bringing it up for a reason.
I don't know, mate , It doesn't feel baseless when I and other instance admins have been personally the subject of multiple dunk tank posts with hundreds of comments and when your own admins open some themselves.
I don't think we're going to reach any understanding here. I'm not gonna be your snitch because your community keeps trying to hurt my feelings and then pretend that it never happened. I'm just calling it like it is.
The fact that I even got ridiculed by your community for the pointing your community rules in the threads breaking them, for me speaks volumes.
You're the best Ada thanks for everything!
Thank you for allowing armedqweers to exist here Ada.
When I hear "My goal of blahaj zone is not political," I hear "I want my group to have no immune system so that fascism can insidiously sneak in past our noses."
If I said "politics has no place on blahaj zone" that would be a fair accusation.
But politics explicitly has a place on blahaj zone, precisely because of the impact it has on the lives our community. It needs to be talked about. Politics has a place here, because it has to have a place here. But it's not the primary reason the space exists.
Your goal for the entire site is non-political. Being a safe space for trans people is a political goal, intrinsically, in my opinion. Do you have a wildly different definition of "political" than the one I'm using?
We are a left leaning instance that is explicitly welcoming of political discussion, and home to several communities focused on politics.
You are mistakenly conflating the fact that we don't center politics with the idea that we're trying to avoid it.
I know your secret, Ada; you want to protect trans people, and you use any power in your hands to save trans lives if and when you can. Being queer is a radical political act, and one which you and your community don't just avoid, but are in full support of. It's okay to acknowledge it. It's a good thing, in fact.
Why would I avoid it? I'm openly, loudly and proudly queer. In the daily I'm covered in pride symbol's, and i have an estrogen tattoo.
I'm an advocate and an activist, and this space is part of it.
I'm political, but this space is a result of my politics, not a vehicle for it, because my advocacy includes people who don't share my political views.
Mindtraveller was nothing but supportive of Me the other day when I was being misgendered and grilled on My pronouns by other users. The only other people who were acting like trans allies were yourself and the two mods of this community. And I'm very grateful to you for removing the comments and kittenzrulz for allowing Me to return to this community. But Mindtraveller did something different, which was being deeply vocal about trans inclusivity, and I needed to hear that. It helped Me deal with the anxiety I get when I'm exposed to that sort of thing. Who's going to yell at transphobes and run c/soulism if they're gone?
Also it looks from this thread like the mods of this community are allowing Mindtraveller to be a member, since they have a comment in this thread. They say they're cooperating with the mods of Liberty Hub and there's not going to be any more infighting. Where's the division?
The mod(singular since the soulists chased the others out) is probably inactive and may also have been chased out because of the aftermath.
The division is how midtraveler is constantly starting arguments with people who don't share their views. If hexbear gets defederated for this behavior, why did midtraveler get an admin endorsement when it only caused more division?
Hexbear was defederated because they allow dunking and targetting of folk they don't agree with. They were defederated because of their dogpiling.
MindTraveller's community was allowed to exist on the explicit provision that it didn't do that.
And then it was removed when it became clear it was doing nothing but damaging the community.
Can you explain what was the content of the removed post where Mindtraveller lied about you? What was Mindtraveller saying that wasn't true?
Telling people to use a trans person's preferred pronouns isn't starting an argument. The arguments were started when those people misgendered Me. There's nothing wrong with responding negatively to transphobia. I'm very grateful that they did. It really helped with My mental health.
Mindtraviler continually tried to rules lawyer in the communities I mod for when they where never active in those communities.
Can I see?
It was mostly through the report function & I've been unable to upload images. I made a post in meta talking about the image issue.
I had a problem with images too the other day. I couldn't embed any links to imgur. So what are they reporting and why?
They where reporting criticism of government officials & comments about protests as electioneering.
Those can definitely be electioneering, depending on the context. The first one almost certainly, the second one is more finicky. Sounds like they were helping you out.
There are others that respect Your pronouns without also behaving as confrontationally as MindTraveller. There's plenty to criticize about them without misgendering anyone.
Well, I like that Mindtraveller was mean to the people who misgendered Me. It made Me feel respected. I'm very grateful to Ada and Kittenzrulz, but they weren't mean to transphobes like Mindtraveller was. Is that what all this is about, them being mean in that thread? I liked it. Do other people think it was bad?
And again when the mean tankies do it it's "dogpiling."
Midtraveler wasn't just mean, they were belligerent at any perceived slight towards their beliefs. They created a comm dedicated to specifically "satirize" this comm as a reaction to having their transphobia allegations denied (and their first attempt to shut this comm down) after they took offense at the mod's stances.
I don't understand why Ada didn't immediately see that it was clearly directly targeting members of this community and it's one of the reasons I decided to stop using this instance.
Well, I can't see Non Voters because it's banned, but what I can see is that the modlog of Liberty Hub says they were unbanned from here 3 days ago. So if that community was created to attack this one, then it's clearly been forgiven by Liberty Hub. And c/soulism didn't have any personal attacks when I visited it. So where's the division? Who exactly is still fighting this fight other than you and Ada? If Mindtraveller quit fighting Liberty Hub and Liberty Hub quit fighting Mindtraveller, what's the problem? Why aren't we all friends? I like Ada, I like kittenzrulz, I like Mindtraveller. It seems like kittenzrulz likes Mindtraveller and I haven't seen any evidence that Mindtraveller doesn't like kittenzrulz. They're saying in this thread that they're working together. So it seems like all of us are getting along. Who's still fighting? Ada, apparently, and I don't know why.
I didn't like this community either when LOC misgendered Me. But LOC apologised, I forgave them, and this community even had a change in leadership and resolved not to ban people so often. Now I like this community. Mindtraveller and kittenzrulz are getting along now too. There was a problem, it got fixed, now everyone's friends. Right?
I wish things were that simple, right now this community is tearing itself from within. Nothing I do, nor how much I apologize appears to appease many of these people.
A lot of the regulars here want you to keep on banning and insulting anyone they disagree with. They want fights and they want a divided community. That's what they've always wanted. And LOC banned anyone who didn't want that, so now most of your regulars are the people who do. You've got a community made out of people who want trouble. If you don't cause trouble for them by banning all dissenters, then they'll make the trouble for you.
I think you should go back and do a mass unban of people who were banned for silly reasons. You should try to build community of people who want open and respectful discussion with other leftists, and hope over time those voices drown out the ones spoiling for a fight. I don't think you're going to be able to calm down a lot of these people except through the passage of time. They're probably really distrustful because LOC was so distrustful. They'll only believe you can do well as a moderator if they see it with their own eyes. They won't believe anything you say if it's just words.
Also, I'm curious. How did you leave things off with Mindtraveller? Were they causing any problems after the change in leadership? Was there any division between them and you?
Im not sure if I can, im dealing with enough issues already.
Don't do that tbh, the people that were banned were mostly banned for being aggressive towards the viewpoints shared here. The community will only get MORE argumentative.
Nice strawman. That's not what I'm referring to at all. I understand that I was vague enough in my previous response to leave room for that though, so fair enough.
I'm living my real actual life right now and don't have time to articulate why they're toxic, because it's friday night for me. I respect you enough to give You this much for now. If I'm still of the same mind tomorrow I'll try to elaborate further, again out of respect for You
Thank you. It's just that I've seen nothing but good things from them. And I understand precisely why these good things would make some people upset. What I don't understand is why anyone sensible is mad at them. And I can't see the post Ada says they're lying about either, so I can't check any of this Myself.
You know what? I have changed my mind after sleeping off my drinks.
Already in this thread You have engaged in strawman arguments and sealioning. I won't engage with that level of bad faith in this community. Under Link's moderation it never would have stayed up here at all.
I miss the old LibertyHub already.