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this post was submitted on 12 Jul 2024
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Nobody deep in the blue is going to stop voting Democrat over these things, stop pretending that's the issue. The problem is that the people necessary for Biden to win are not your typical blue voter. They might dislike Donald Trump as well, but for whatever myriad of reasons don't rule him out as a person they will vote for. They exists - if they didn't there would be a critical mass of voters to win and the republican party would have been dead or you'd never have a Democrat as a president.
Most likely - they feel disenfranchised by both the Democrats and Republicans because their concerns aren't being heard. And by not taking their concerns at least somewhat seriously yet again, you might piss enough of them off to lose the majority. And this attitude really isn't helping in salvaging their trust. Telling someone they're going to vote for a candidate they don't trust or want whether they like it or not is NEVER a good slogan to run a campaign by. It only works on people that are well informed about what's at stake behind the scenes.
What's the problem with just being honest with each other for once. A better candidate more people could stand behind is what democracy demands. America's two party system has always created unpopular choices, and everyone normally agrees with that. But when one side sinks to an extreme, suddenly it made the perfect choice on the opposite side? Why are people so afraid to open the possibility to unite behind a more coherent and capable Democrat backed by the same cabinet, who can dunk on Trump's lies and rally people with a plan to actually make sure all the terrible things that happened get undone?
Saying you don't want to vote for Biden isn't an endorsement to vote for Trump, voting third party, or not voting at all. It's a plea to find something similar, but better, that more people can stand behind.
On one hand I completely agree The issue is getting everyone to agree meaning we are unfortunately stuck here for a little bit
It's a thoughtless plea that is only self serving. You think you will effect change this way? By dividing the party. You're a fool.
It is self serving. That's the purpose. You're not taking their concern seriously, so they're pulling the trigger and saying "Fine, then I'm voting for the thing you fear more than I do." We don't live in a perfect world. Flawed people are voting too. Rejecting their look on things might be morally just, but you might just lose the presidency over it. It's just like getting into a fatal accident on purpose because you "had the right of way". And some people are seeing this coming, so even if they'd never vote Republican they still see the losing situation not speaking up puts them in.
All I see is infighting when the threat is very real and is very apparent. There is also every angle to bury the Trump but all people can do is turn on each other. These are obvious distractions and if you keep letting them trip you up, as they are intended to, trump will win.
If you can admit the threat is very real and apparent, then you should be in favor of the best candidate the democrats can offer, not specifically Joe Biden. If Joe Biden was that candidate, it wouldn't even be a question and only a small minority of dissenters would be of that opinion. But instead he's already the incumbent, which is essentially the best boost you can get, and he's still making people doubt him. Infighting isn't resolved by slamming your fist on the table and saying "I'm right, and nobody else gets a say.". That's how the Republicans got Trump. Infighting is resolved by getting people together, by making compromises and forging alliances. If you aren't going to treat democracy as the process to get the most people satisfied with the result, it's no wonder things get more polarized every time.
Sorry but democracy was what the primaries were for. Having the DNC pick a candidate is not democracy. I was all for primaring biden but what you refuse to see is no one would let it happen. So convenient now that everything is on the line we must doubt everything. Such a fucked way to do "democracy."
The Republicans may not be valid and may not be just but God damn they are wiping the floor with us at every level of government.
You're right. That's not democracy either. Real democracy doesn't happen just at votes. It also happens in these kinds of discussions. And it adapts to new information.
I actually think a lot changed between that decision and now. I don't think anywhere near as many people doubted Joe Biden back then because his actions in the last four years spoke loud enough. But as the vote gets closer, confidence isn't measured in objectivity but in the effectiveness of appeal to voters.
Joe Biden might still be the best pick at the end of the day, but if that comes to be it needs to be because the concerns have been resolved and the opposition satisfied. You have four months and his candidacy isn't even locked in. Other countries can fit 4 elections in that same period. A single good debate can swing votes, but if Joe keeps it up he will not swing back hard enough.
Joe should not be the issue in the election. When has a FELON ever run for president?! Why is the SUPREME COURT declaring the president KING!? You've all lost the fucking thread and I don't know why I bother.
You're legitimately looking at this too rationally. Because you're absolutely right, but that's just not the reality of the situation. The reality is that only about 40% of people are going to vote for Joe Biden no matter what. Trump doesn't have a guaranteed majority either, but you need that final 10% (or more or less because of the Electoral College) to be convinced Joe Biden will deliver on the things they consider Trump for. And if that concern is that he's not 'strong' enough to stand up to China or something because he's too 'weak' of a president, you must not ignore that because you need these people to get the goal you desire.
Converting the other people in the country back to rational people just isn't going to happen this election. It's a process that might take generations to be reverted. You need this victory now to even get a chance at starting that process. And by showing them their concerns matter and you don't just want to dismiss them, is part of regaining that trust and building a foundation to depolarize.
It's not going to happen because the media and every pundit up to John fucking Stewart think they can stop biden from running and they are all dead wrong. I have a mug in my house "I believe in RGB" (was a gift). We've rationalized theses old fucks loose grip on reality to the point of merchandising. While we all fight over how we're going to elect Harris Trump wipes his ass with classified documents for fun.
Stranger things have happened before in politics. But yes, you're right that these old people are very entangled to the point where they seem untouchable. But that's the point. That's their job as politicians. The only way that changes is if enough people get sick and tired of it and demand change, especially when their future is being sacrificed to satisfy some small portion's desire to keep a specific candidate on the ballot. If the party cannot stop this from ballooning they will eventually lose.
And you're right, Trump is happy to see that. But by rejecting concerns and not talking about it, compromising, you will get more infighting, not less. And more infighting will not cause the issue to be resolved faster, it will lead to a situation like you saw in 2016, where apathy rose to such degrees that people voted for Trump out of spite. It's a different situation now knowing what he is capable of, but you can't look at that apathy being bred as not terrifying.
Because again, there's a big chunk of people who just don't care about all the terrible stuff he's done to the degree they exclude him. What should have been sure democrat votes might be lost just to the insistence a specific candidate must represent them.
Lol, would you be able to injure a human or, through inaction, allow a human to get injured?
In any case I believe you're a bot.
Well, I did just injure myself by reading this comment and responding, so that counts, I guess.