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ALL atheist arguments answered in 10 minutes (www.youtube.com)

submitted 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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I don't agree with everything in this video, particularly about the denominations objection, but it's otherwise a pretty good apologetics scattershot of atheist objections.

Obviously any single objection would require more than a 10 minute meme video to really explain.

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

My best friend went through the NA program and he is, to the best of my knowledge, an atheist. NA is less overtly religious than AA. He did have to acknowledge things outside of his control and you are correct that the acknowdgement of a higher power does not have to be God. In his case it was "the universe". They don't talk about religion but it is a spiritual program that begins by submitting to something greater than yourself. Relinquishing control and submitting to the vulnerability of admitting that one's life has become unmanageable is still a key part of the program. Admission of failure, forgiving and seeking forgiveness are as well. These secularized concepts are rooted in Christianity. What's interesting is that no scientific approach with drugs etc has reached the level of success as these programs.

[–] glimse 2 points 4 months ago (1 children)

AA started as a Christian group and they've since dropped that association because nobody likes getting preached to

What's interesting is that no scientific approach with drugs etc has reached the level of success as these programs.

Uh...what do you think sociologists do for a living? Psychologists? Though if you mean there's no drug that can be administered to cure someone, that's because addiction is first and foremost a social issue. People don't relapse because of the chemical addiction, they do it because they feel hopeless. It's a lot closer to homelessness than cancer

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago

AA started as a Christian group and they've since dropped that association because nobody likes getting preached to

It made sense to secularize the program so that it could be applied to a wider audience. AA is extremely widespread in Iran for example.

Uh...what do you think sociologists do for a living?

I suspect a non-trivial amount of them teach sociology

Though if you mean there's no drug that can be administered to cure someone, that's because addiction is first and foremost a social issue.

Social issues are definitely a part of the disease of addiction but it's also a spiritual issue. It's not like if every toxic relationship was "fixed" they would stop using. My friend in particular came from a loving household where every basic need was met. There are many cases like his where no matter how amenable the circumstances the addiction rages.

People don't relapse because of the chemical addiction, they do it because they feel hopeless.

The memory of the rush is part of it but I agree that hopelessness is the tipping point. It's the moment the addict gives in.

It's a lot closer to homelessness than cancer

I guess. My point is that there is that recovery programs address, primarily, a spiritual issue. It's not materialistic or empiricist. It is social, sure, but also metaphysical. That's what makes the difference. It's the reason participants have to "work the steps". Transformation comes from working through suffering. It's an intensely personal experience of accepting shortcomings, submitting to a higher power and only then, in the company of others, working to rebuild your life step by step. Much like the battle against sin the battle against addiction is a daily struggle and we all fall short.