this post was submitted on 12 Jun 2023
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So far Lemmy is vibing. Everyone here is excited and optimistic and willing to put up with a few rough spots to be part of something.

When the Eternal September comes, which it will, how does a Lemmy instance deal with bad actors?

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[–] fubo 120 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (34 children)

Some thoughts β€”

The original "Eternal September" (on Usenet) wasn't an influx of abusers. It was an influx of new users who didn't know how to do things properly yet.

Most of the new users were from the America Online (AOL) private service, and known as "AOLers". (As it happens, I joined Usenet around the same time, but from a local dial-up Unix BBS in the Washington DC area.)

The AOLers didn't know which aspects of the service as they saw it were due to the AOL custom client software, which were due to the AOL local server, which were due to the newsgroup (forum) they were looking at, and which were due to the global Usenet consensus. So when they had a problem, they didn't know where to address that problem. They complained on public newsgroups about UI issues with their local client, because they didn't know what was what.

And the existing users didn't have the time or capacity to help them. The AOLers were added to Usenet en-masse without preparation. Nobody had signed up to help them. The AOLers were accustomed to AOL chat rooms that had staff helpers and moderators; most of Usenet did not have any β€” just regularly-posted FAQ documents, which the AOLers did not know to look for, and grouchy users who angrily told them to read the goddamn FAQ before posting.

Another consequence of the influx of new folks was that Usenet suddenly just had a lot more people. This made it a tasty target for commercial spammers and other abusers; which led to the eventual spampocalypse and a lot of people abandoning Usenet for web forums or other services.

It wasn't long into Eternal September that the hardcore abusers showed up, though. That, I think, is the harder problem to deal with.

"Good" Usenet servers did not reliably disconnect themselves from the servers that were accepting and forwarding spam. It was not generally acknowledged that a good server needs to block bad servers: the free-speech ideal was assumed to mean "accept anything from anyone; let the client decide what to filter out" β€” which meant that new users who had not written any filters necessarily saw all the spam.

And because nothing was secured by strong encryption, forgery was rampant; with a little cleverness, anyone could pretend to be anyone from any server.

There were many, many efforts to fix the spam problem. Unfortunately, as things turned out, it wasn't enough. Eventually folks noticed that the NNTP facility offered by their ISPs was a great means for sharing pirated porn ....

[–] bobaduk 15 points 1 year ago (13 children)

Agreed on all points! It turns out Lemmy has a mechanism for federating block lists. What will be interesting is when instances disagree about bans. If you get banned from an instance because - hypothetically - you disagree with the actions of one government or another, it's not obvious to me that other instances should repeat the ban.

Will we end up with islands of trust?

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

It's a damn necessity if you want to avoid a situation like Mastodon had with Gab joining the fediverse.

Imagine the absolute shitshow if a white-supremacist Reddit clone like Poal suddenly integrated their site with Lemmy...

[–] fubo 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I'm somewhere between libertarian and progressive, I vote for mainstream Democrats, and I'm not super thrilled with the tankie situation 'round these parts. When I get around to running one of these things, you better bet I'm not peering with the Klan.

[–] stankmut 2 points 1 year ago

So much for the tolerant le–

Hopefully you've got the Paradox of Tolerance on hand, because you'll end up quoting it a lot with every 'free speech!' person who shows up angry that you banned someone for throwing slurs around.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

I'm pretty far from Marxist myself, but I gotta say, I can't see a system like Lemmy coming up at this point in the lifecycle of the internet except through that kind of ideology. I'll gladly verbally bitch-slap a tankie for their pro-Putler bs, but the fact that an alt-right instance can (and probably does) exist is proof that true freedom of speech can exist only on a free and open platform like Lemmy. Fuck whatever Elon thought it was.

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