this post was submitted on 05 Jul 2024

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Jeremy Corbyn re-elected as independent in Islington North after expulsion from Labour (www.theguardian.com)

submitted 5 months ago by [email protected] to c/world

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[–] Womble 4 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Former U.K. Labour Leader Corbyn: Ukraine War Is 'Disgraceful' And Russia's 'Wrong At Every Level'

really parroting Putin's talking points there

[–] lennybird 1 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

Cute but it's the "...but" following that softening blow, obviously.

So why is Corbyn speaking on behalf of the victim and telling them what they should be okay with giving up?

[–] Womble 5 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Can you point to the quote where he says Ukraine should give up and what they should give up to make peace?

[–] lennybird 4 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I'll do one better:

[–] Womble 2 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

the first one

“Pouring arms in isn’t going to bring about a solution, it’s only going to prolong and exaggerate this war,” Corbyn said. “We might be in for years and years of a war in Ukraine.”

Corbyn gave the interview on Al Mayadeen, a Beirut-based TV channel that has carried pro-Russia reporting since Vladimir Putin’s invasion of Ukraine.

“What I find disappointing is that hardly any of the world’s leaders use the word peace; they always use the language of more war, and more bellicose war.”

He added: “This war is disastrous for the people of Ukraine, for the people of Russia, and for the safety and security of the whole world, and therefore there has to be much more effort put into peace.”

He is critical of supplying arms and not looking for a peaceful solution, but that is not calling for a withdrawal of Aid despite the Guardian's framing.

The second is from 2014 in which he says:

Russia has gone way beyond its legal powers to use bases in the Crimea. Sending unidentified forces into another country is clearly a violation of that country’s sovereignty.

Still, the hypocrisy of the West remains unbelievable. NATO has sought to expand since the end of the cold war. It has increased its military capability and expenditure. It operates way beyond its original 1948 area and its attempt to encircle Russia is one of the big threats of our time.

We have marched against wars in Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya. We should oppose any foreign military intervention in Ukraine, as that would only succeed in that country reliving its traumatic past as a battleground where Russia and Western Europe vie for supremacy.

Nowhere in that second article does he say Ukraine should cede Crimea, he just gives a factual account of if being transferred from the Russian to the Ukrainian SSR. I'm really not seeing any simping for Putin here.

To be clear, I dont agree with Corbyn's stance personally, I believe Russia is an expansionist imperialist power than needs to be stopped by force now that it has overstepped the line and launched a military invasion of a neighbor. But having a different view (as he does does that more effort should be put onto brokering a peace deal) not equate to being a patsy for a dictator.

[–] lennybird 3 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

Translation for #1: He's telling them to give up because resistance is futile. Every conflict in history could find a peaceful solution if the oppressed simply gave up at the first sign of trouble with the oppressors. Clearly, that tends to be a losing strategy.

Translation for #2:

As for the Crimea where Russia is now moving in, it has historically been separate from Ukraine. It was a theatre of war between Western Europe and Russia during the 1850s, a fact which should be a warning to us today. Then, as now, empires fought for space and influence. Its Tartar population was treated disgracefully by Stalin, and wholesale deportation followed the end of World War II.

Eventually many [Russians] returned to the Crimea and they now make up an eighth of the population. Most of the rest are Russian speakers who came there during the Soviet period.

Obviously, without question, establishing a finders-keepers narrative.

I'm sorry but I do not buy either argument. It does not detract from the notion that Corbyn is trying to tell the defender, the victim, how they should be willing to fight back and how much they should be willing to lose.

I just want to know if Corbyn would volunteer for the front-line should Russia simply regroup following a ceasefire and attack again.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I just want to know if Corbyn would volunteer for the front-line should Russia simply regroup following a ceasefire and attack again.

Ugh, embarrassing take. Do you think somebody talking about ending a war is betraying…yeah, what again?

[–] lennybird 4 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

Ending a war by... Giving up? Conceding land? Letting the aggressor regroup and attack again?

... What?

All I want to know is if Corbyn is so confident in his ceasefire plan that he'd put himself on the Frontline if he's wrong. If he's right, then he has nothing to fear... Riiiighhht?

[–] [email protected] -2 points 5 months ago (1 children)

this war has been going on for 10 years now. do you think more people should die for…again, what?

How about a peace treaty with western countries giving real guarantees to Ukraine instead of trying to weaken Russia by proxy, aka the Ukrainian population, providing lacklustre military support.

[–] lennybird 2 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

What does duration have to do with anything? Why are you speaking on behalf of Ukrainians who are actually the ones defending their families and doing the fighting and who know what Putin is like from personal experience?

Real guarantees of protection like a pathway to NATO? Yeah, Russia kind of interrupted that my guy.

I say again: All I want to know is if Corbyn is so confident in his ceasefire plan that he'd put himself on the Frontline if he's wrong. If he's right, then he has nothing to fear... Riiiighhht?